colvic
New member
When accepting an Insurance offer, what does subrogate my rights mean?
Cheers
Phil
Cheers
Phil
When accepting an Insurance offer
- Thread starter colvic
- Start date
BrendanS
Well-known member
Insurance Policies allow the insurance company to take over the rights the named insured has to go back against a negligent third party to collect amounts the company paid to the named insured under the Hull coverage.
This is referred to as the "Subrogation" clause. If I damage your property because of my negligence, under tort law you would have a right of action against me to compensate you for the loss. Under "subrogation" the company takes over that right after they pay the named insured for the loss.
A company could, for example, subrogate against a delivery skipper who was negligent and caused damage to the craft, and thereby recover all or part of what they paid the named insured.
Disclaimer: I'm not qualified to give insurance advice, so use this information at your own risk, or consult a solicitor if anything in the contract causes concern
This is referred to as the "Subrogation" clause. If I damage your property because of my negligence, under tort law you would have a right of action against me to compensate you for the loss. Under "subrogation" the company takes over that right after they pay the named insured for the loss.
A company could, for example, subrogate against a delivery skipper who was negligent and caused damage to the craft, and thereby recover all or part of what they paid the named insured.
Disclaimer: I'm not qualified to give insurance advice, so use this information at your own risk, or consult a solicitor if anything in the contract causes concern
colvic
New member
Thanks Brendan,
Thought it was that, but my knowledge of leagise is rather limited.
Cheers
Phil
Thought it was that, but my knowledge of leagise is rather limited.
Cheers
Phil
G
Guest
Guest
Be carful of clauses - I paid the price !
Having fell foul of Insurance Co. ...... actually the Broker who then 'informed' underwriter INCORRECTLY ...... I am very wary of any clause that reduces / retracts my rights. The case in Question ......
And I will name and shame here ----- for years I have kept quiet, now is time to clear it away for good !
Newton Crum Brokers had a claim from me for 'illegal entry' and theft from my Snapdragon 23. I lost various items including .... extensive inventory of sails, fishing gear, masthead wind indicator - waiting to be fitted, spinnaker pole, signal flag set, etc. etc. The inner door between main and for cabin was pushed out of its frame. The Firehatch forced was the means of entry.
The arguments and 'ducking and diving' by NC before they finally agreed a REDUCED settlement ....... I was sick of the whole affair and agreed to the settlement AND agreed loss of right to return to the claim later.
I replaced most fishing items via Household Insurance ..... they were excellent and didn't argue - they agreed and also said that they only needed confirmation from the nominated shop that gear to the value was taken by me.
As for NC .... I received approx. 50% of the claim and was forced to compromise on sails. So they agreed to allow me to fit a Furling system in lieu of so many head sails that I had previously. So Profurl was fitted and away we went. I signed and returned the forms.
Some few weeks later, the stem-head fitting failed and the furling gear, mast and sail were damaged seriously. The lifeboat towed us back into Bembridge ......
So back to NC .... who were to say the least absolutely unhelpful, as Brokers I expect them to provide service and communications suitable to promote and protect their client - not to protect the pocket of the underwriter. I was referred to a fax number to deal direct with the Underwriter ..... no direct communication was allowed in any way. NC then instructed a surveyor to attend the craft at Bembridge WITHOUT my permission or even informing me. The surveyor contacted me after his inspection and informed me privately that he had been instructed to check the craft as to validity of FIRST claim and also the extent of damage for this second claim. He told me that his opinion was that my first claim was invalid as I couldn't rig a spinnaker with downhauls / preventers, topping lifts etc. etc. - therefore in his opinion I never had a spinnaker before !!!! I will not repeat what I said on the phone - but you can imagine that I was totally out of my 'pram' !!!! I had never heard such utter bunkum in my life. NC then proceeded to inform me that under their right as agreed to by myself previously - they would consider return of first claim payout ! I then had to go through the experience of describing how to rig a spinnaker on the boat and then to cap it all - I had to demand a visit by an independent and respected surveyor to do the job properly. Finally they agreed ..... all the time the underwriter stayed absolutely silent.
Now we get to the part where NC now wash their hands of the whole thing and state clearly that they no longer wish to communicate with me, that all contact will now be direct to the underwriter ...... Remember that the boat has now been in the yard for over 4 months, bills mounting up etc. No repairs have been made etc. etc.
The second surveyor reports that he believes the mounting of the furling gear gave way due to lack of pinning the bolt under the deck ..... OK no problem .. the bolt was innaccessible and I don't argue. He also stated clearly that there was no evidence to state that the fist claim was invalid and declined to agree with the first inspection.
So the outcome ..... Newton Crum will NEVER ever have any business from me nor any one that asks me to recommend a Broker / Insurance agent ..... the underwriter paid out again 50% of the claim .... stating that he required TLC .... Total Loss Claim ...giving him ownership of the boat. This was refused and after approximately another 2 months I had my boat agreed to stay in my ownership. The claim was only sufficient paid to do essential repairs and I was left with the rest .......
So anyone want to ask me about Clauses and Brokers etc. ????
I then needed to find another Insurance ..... Giles came to the rescue and I can honestly say they were very good. I only changed from them a few years later due to premium cost ... but I would have been happy enough to stay.
So NC ..... you may be cheaper, you may have an excellent record from the Hurricane of many years ago ..... but your treatment and lack of support of my claims have condemned you to my Black-List and Hells dungeons.
Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !
Having fell foul of Insurance Co. ...... actually the Broker who then 'informed' underwriter INCORRECTLY ...... I am very wary of any clause that reduces / retracts my rights. The case in Question ......
And I will name and shame here ----- for years I have kept quiet, now is time to clear it away for good !
Newton Crum Brokers had a claim from me for 'illegal entry' and theft from my Snapdragon 23. I lost various items including .... extensive inventory of sails, fishing gear, masthead wind indicator - waiting to be fitted, spinnaker pole, signal flag set, etc. etc. The inner door between main and for cabin was pushed out of its frame. The Firehatch forced was the means of entry.
The arguments and 'ducking and diving' by NC before they finally agreed a REDUCED settlement ....... I was sick of the whole affair and agreed to the settlement AND agreed loss of right to return to the claim later.
I replaced most fishing items via Household Insurance ..... they were excellent and didn't argue - they agreed and also said that they only needed confirmation from the nominated shop that gear to the value was taken by me.
As for NC .... I received approx. 50% of the claim and was forced to compromise on sails. So they agreed to allow me to fit a Furling system in lieu of so many head sails that I had previously. So Profurl was fitted and away we went. I signed and returned the forms.
Some few weeks later, the stem-head fitting failed and the furling gear, mast and sail were damaged seriously. The lifeboat towed us back into Bembridge ......
So back to NC .... who were to say the least absolutely unhelpful, as Brokers I expect them to provide service and communications suitable to promote and protect their client - not to protect the pocket of the underwriter. I was referred to a fax number to deal direct with the Underwriter ..... no direct communication was allowed in any way. NC then instructed a surveyor to attend the craft at Bembridge WITHOUT my permission or even informing me. The surveyor contacted me after his inspection and informed me privately that he had been instructed to check the craft as to validity of FIRST claim and also the extent of damage for this second claim. He told me that his opinion was that my first claim was invalid as I couldn't rig a spinnaker with downhauls / preventers, topping lifts etc. etc. - therefore in his opinion I never had a spinnaker before !!!! I will not repeat what I said on the phone - but you can imagine that I was totally out of my 'pram' !!!! I had never heard such utter bunkum in my life. NC then proceeded to inform me that under their right as agreed to by myself previously - they would consider return of first claim payout ! I then had to go through the experience of describing how to rig a spinnaker on the boat and then to cap it all - I had to demand a visit by an independent and respected surveyor to do the job properly. Finally they agreed ..... all the time the underwriter stayed absolutely silent.
Now we get to the part where NC now wash their hands of the whole thing and state clearly that they no longer wish to communicate with me, that all contact will now be direct to the underwriter ...... Remember that the boat has now been in the yard for over 4 months, bills mounting up etc. No repairs have been made etc. etc.
The second surveyor reports that he believes the mounting of the furling gear gave way due to lack of pinning the bolt under the deck ..... OK no problem .. the bolt was innaccessible and I don't argue. He also stated clearly that there was no evidence to state that the fist claim was invalid and declined to agree with the first inspection.
So the outcome ..... Newton Crum will NEVER ever have any business from me nor any one that asks me to recommend a Broker / Insurance agent ..... the underwriter paid out again 50% of the claim .... stating that he required TLC .... Total Loss Claim ...giving him ownership of the boat. This was refused and after approximately another 2 months I had my boat agreed to stay in my ownership. The claim was only sufficient paid to do essential repairs and I was left with the rest .......
So anyone want to ask me about Clauses and Brokers etc. ????
I then needed to find another Insurance ..... Giles came to the rescue and I can honestly say they were very good. I only changed from them a few years later due to premium cost ... but I would have been happy enough to stay.
So NC ..... you may be cheaper, you may have an excellent record from the Hurricane of many years ago ..... but your treatment and lack of support of my claims have condemned you to my Black-List and Hells dungeons.
Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !
BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: Be carful of clauses - I paid the price !
??? I am careful of clauses. All I did was tell Colvic what the term meant.
??? I am careful of clauses. All I did was tell Colvic what the term meant.
G
Guest
Guest
I was not getting at you .....
I was passing on a tale of woe ..... no intention to get at you or any other postee !!!
Sorry if you misunderstood
Nigel
Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !
I was passing on a tale of woe ..... no intention to get at you or any other postee !!!
Sorry if you misunderstood
Nigel
Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !
