Wheel versus Tiller on 32 footer

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Plomong

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The salesman who sold us our new Beneteau 323 32-footer managed to convince us that wheel steering is superior to a tiller. However, I'm still not convinced, seeing advantages and disadvantages of both.

The main problem I see with the wheel setup is the large and imposing instrument console that accompanies the wheel, and takes up fully 30% of the cockpit, which I prefer to have free of obstacles. Winch access is also a problem, but when using the autopilot , this is probably not so serious.

On the other hand, a tiller autopilot is just a long cylinder, unattached by any safe means to the boat. With an open transom this is likely to find its way overboard, probably when least expected and unwanted. However, the cockpit is open and unencumbered.

Any thoughts or comments on the subject ???
 
Another thing to consider is what the cockpit was designed for. I suspect your boat was designed for a wheel and you could find it quite hard to brace yourself when helming with a tiller.
 
I'm buying a new Huzar 30 and have gone for the tiller option, partly for the reasons you mention. In addition, I often singlehand, and being stuck behind a wheel does not appeal when mooring and so on. But it does depends on the cockpit width [being able to brace yourself].
[PS this means I have a Trapper 500 for sail, as featured in March edition of 'Sailing Today']

Nicholas Hill

www.channelpilot.info
 
I've sailed lots of boats this size, some with wheels, some with tillers. Hated using a wheel at first as the feedback seemed so little after a tiller, but got used to that. In fact most of the time I now prefer a wheel, as when the boat is balanced you can steer so easily, with just a finger or two on the wheel. IMHO the only time a wheel loses out is when running before a sea, with the stern sliding all over the place. Much harder to put the rudder quickly over and back again with a wheel, especially if the gearing ratio is low - sore wrists rapidly become the order of the day.
 
Like most people here I have used both and as you pointed out a wheel does take up cockpit space.
But given a choice I would always pick wheel steering - I find it easier over long distances - seems to handle the autohelm better than tiller - you can choose whether to stand or sit - in a marina if you stand with a tiller to see better you always seem to be reaching to hold the boat amidships, where as with a wheel you can stand offset and still have good control. Once you've backed a boat into a berth with a wheel you'll never go back to a tiller, especially if the engine controls are on the binacle!
Some people say that a tiller gives you better "feel" but I have never found that to be true - standing behind a wheel whilst surfing down wind gives you a perfect view and the boat always lets you know what she wants to do though your feet and hands.

Peter.
 
I can't comment other than to say I've only had boats below 20 feet so tiller is my preference.
I have a mate who has an Oceanlord sail with me and he bemoaned the lack of feel the wheel gave him and loved the responsiveness of a tiller. Frankly the boat I had at that time was nothing like as lively on the helm as my current one.
 
IMO I think you are underestimating the amount of room taken up by the tiller and a tiller autopilot when sailing.

Depending on the size of the cockpit and experience of the crew (novices tend to take a lot or room) the tiller can take up a lot of room when you take into account the vertical and horizontal arcs of movement taken up by the tiller and the helmsman who will usually move to windward and have to shuffle people out the way every time you tack.

With a wheel the helmsman is up the back taking orders where he should be, not crashing about in the cockpit knocking over G&Ts and disturbing people from their 'working cushions'.
 
I have a 35' centre-cockpit, with wheel-steering (couldn't be much else really /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) and rod linkage to the rudder post, which is only about 5' away. The "feel" is fine, the steering position comfy, there is no tiller pilot to get in the way, and the top of the pedestal is a great handhold.

Underway there is no restriction where anyone can sit and I can sit on the rear hatch in a fine viewing position, steering with a foot.

I have sailed a lot in 7 and 8m tiller-steered boats, and I much prefer the wheel.

You don't need a large instrument console on the pedestal - I just have the binnacle compass, the single lever control, and 2 cup holders, winch handle in a pocket on the front. Couldn't you have the best of both worlds ie instruments over the hatch, and a lean pedestal with a nice wheel?
 
I find them much of a muchness really. I know some people really prefer one to the other, but they both have their advantages and disadvantages. I agree with Dug in terms of space, a tiller and it's helmsman can take up just as much room as a wheel. A tiller is nice when not on the move though as you can lift it clear out of the cockpit. I can comfortably seat 6 for dinner in my cockpit, and have had 9 for drinks. Couldn't do that with a wheel in the cockpit of a 28'er.

If I were buying a new boat and it was an option, I'd go for the wheel though.
 
And here's a vote for tillers....

I've got a 33'er with a tiller...... did seriously contemplate replacing it with a wheel middle last year (to the point of buying a wheel, pedestal, quadrant etc), but then decided to stick with tiller..... just like the 'feel'....

But also sailed lots with wheels, and OK with them too.....

IMHO wheels are a bit more family friendly.... easier for the kids.... and you can subtly 'assist' them without appearing to take over....
 
a wheel steering system will probably enable the boat to be sold more easily when you decide to move on. They do however have more moving parts and hence need more maintenance. I think your fear of the tiller autopilot going for a swim is unfounded - mine has yet to make a bid for freedom (and you can always add a safety line around the drive). Me, I like tillers - you instantly know the direction of the rudder, you can change rudder angle much more quickly and, if short handed, you can easily assist the crew; most pivot out of the way in the marina to give a clear cockpit and on the KISS principle there's not much to go wrong.
 
I personally prefer a tiller, but that's probably because my experience of wheels has been too limited to properly get the feel of one. And a lifted-up tiller certainly clears the cockpit.

On the unsecured autohelm point: I have always fitted a lanyard to mine and keep it clipped on while in use "just in case". Daftly there is no built in eye or similar provision for attaching a lanyard, but I use a small jubilee clip to hold it on to the vertical mounting pin which has (just!) enough room for this.
 
Personnally prefer a tiller for the direct feel and 'immediate' control, but have sailed thousands of miles with both, and eventually got used to a wheel after a day or two.

Big problem with wheels for us is the room they take up. Ok, if you've got a relatively small cockpit, a tiller can be just as bad, but the huge pedestals they seem to insist on in the smaller (30-35 foot) is ridiculous IMHO. This size of boat benefits far more from a tiller IMHO.

The thing that tips us in favour of the the tiller, all other things being equal, is the awful idea of having the instruments a couple of feet in front of your eyes. Don't know about anyone else, but my eyes get tired pretty quickly when one is having to glance from instruments to the horizon every few seconds when coastal cruising in particular.

We much prefer to have the instruments at the front of the cockpit (either above the hatch or in the bulkhead) to minimise this.

I suppose the manufacturers are beginning to take note of the 'inconvenience factor' of a wheel system - getting round it quickly to go forward, intrusion into seating space etc - with new ideas like folding wheels and swivelling pedestals.

Hmmmm, seems to me to be tacit acceptance that wheels ain't necessarily all they're cracked up to be!

Still, as I said, one can get used to either given time, though I do feel like a very good friend of mine does who had his 38' boat designed for him. He insisted on a tiller and has never regretted it despite the size of his boat. They are now cruising the Caribbean and wouldn't change to wheel at any price.

It's just what you fancy in the end.
 
Jerry

My turn to disagree but only slightly and in part!

I agree tillers are better than wheels on smaller boats, the difficulty is in deciding where the changeover comes. We had wheel steering on our Westerly 33 which was centre cockpit so the choice was decided by the layout and I wanted a wheel anyway. When I sailed Fulmars like yours and others where the tiller comes off an aft deck at waist height, the difficulty I had was in close quarters under engine when I always seemed to get my body in the way of the tiller or the tiller in the way of my body when trying to reach the gear lever! My last tiller steered boat that I owned was an Elizabethan 30 but the tiller on that came up from the floor, leaving a space behind it for the spinnaker man but also giving an unobstructed access to the gear lever.

I agree 100% with hating instruments at the wheel! Much better IMO to have them in the traditional spot in a panel over the mainhatch, that way they are visible from the wheel without having to switch from long range head up view to closeup head down view continually. More importantly since on passage we are on autopilot most of the time, instruments over the mainhatch are visible from everywhere in the cockpit, not just at the wheel.

Our current boat has a big 'poser' wheel which I love, very secure and comfy steering whilst standing behind it but also very comfy and easy when sat on the side decks, which are thoughtfully angled exactly right, and steering with just two fingers it is so light, from leeward or windward sides. We do have a wheel mounted pod which has a multi instrument repeater, a GPS repeater and the control heads for our main pilot (AH6000) and backup pilot (AH4000, control head only, the wheel unit isn't fitted unless needed). However the main instruments are over the mainhatch and we have a plotter on the coachroof that can also display CTS/SOG/CMG/SMG etc as chosen, all are readable from anywhere in the cockpit.

We have a big and comfy lounging friendly cockpit so the big wheel isn't the space hogger it might be on a smaller boat, which is again I guess saying that it is the transitional boat size that is debatable in the choice.

Regards

Robin
 
I have a preference for a tiller in general, but the issue of cockpit space is a trade-off between underway and alongside. The tiller plus autopilot arm take up at least as much space as a wheel and its pedastal at sea. In harbour, though, tillers can usually be hinged up and take up little or no useful space.

A friend has just spent quite a bit of time and money to replace the wheel with a tiller on his new, to him, HR34.
 
I like to steer with a tiller but I reckon that if my boat had a wheel my cockpit would Change from a cramped 4 seater to a comfortable 6 seater when underway.

Always remember you yave to allow for, not only, the tiller in the central position but the full sweep of the tiller across the available seating, plus the extra room taken by a tiller pilot.

Martin
 
Hi Robin,

I think we're almost singing from the same hymn-sheet actually!!

However, Plomong's question referred to a 32 footer, not the size of boat you drive, where there is no option but a wheel! The same applies to any centre cockpit boat unless you have an enormously long tiller!

The problem in a way, is where the size 'change-over' point is. IMHO, having wheel steering, with its associated linkages etc on a sub-35 foot boat MAY not make sense depending on what your priorities are. If I was buying a boat, with all the additional cost involved in fitting it out/personalising it/updating it etc, wheel steering would be pretty well at the bottom of my list. It may take on a totally different priority for someone else of course.

I confess to being a little puzzled that you had problems close quarters handling a Fulmar, since they are renowned for their ease and precision in this situation. As with all boats, I think it just requires some forethought. For example, we virtually always stand forward of the tiller and work the throttle/gear lever with our right foot! Works a treat, especially as the boat will turn within her own length!

As an aside, the spinnaker method you used on the Elizabethan doesn't apply on the Fulmar as the winches are well forward of the helmsman.

Glad you've got good lounging space though, that's one of the major requirements for us as cruising types!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I confess to being a little puzzled that you had problems close quarters handling a Fulmar, since they are renowned for their ease and precision in this situation

[/ QUOTE ]

It was a long time ago and a company I used to work for roped me in to skipper a Fulmar a few times chartered for their Sailing Club, so a cockpit full of beginners to contend with as well! As you say the Fulmar handles very well, it was the handlER that was having problems getting both left feet the right side of the tiller and able to reach the gear lever. I had sailed quite a few tiller steered yachts where the tiller itself didn't go too far forward from the aft deck (especially transom ruddered ones) and several like my Liz 30 and a friend's Centaur where the tiller came up from the floor so you could pass behind it as well as in front. As you say, if it is your own boat you soon work out a routine.

Lounging is TOP priority! One thing French builders are very good at I find is cockpit ergonomics, there is somewhere at just the right angle for the normal angles of heel to park bum and back comfortably. In our case we have an added gantry with radar scanner, wind genny, solar panels and bimini/cockpit tent too, this provides a roll cage style enclosure for the helmsman in rough weather in the unlikely event the pilot isn't steering. In normal weather there is a padded backrest each side and foam tubing on the gantry frames so you can sit armchair fashion (on cushions of course) and steer from either side or just keep occasional watch. In harbour we have a better set of cockpit cushions out plus a set of very soft garden lounger cushions (£10 in Carrefour Cherbourg) on top of those for the ultimate in luxury!

Back to the original question yes I agree it is the point of changeover in size that is debatable. I would certainly question the sense in the case of the HR34 mentioned of converting from wheel to tiller, that must have knocked £1000s off it's value in my book.

Personal choice though is what counts or we'd all have the same boats.

Robin
 
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