Wheel autopilot - any recommendations ?

whipper_snapper

whipper_snapper

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Looks like we need a new autopilot.

The boat is a Wharram cat, 35'6" LOA displacing a nominal 2 Tons empty and used for serious extended passages in big seas.

My thoughts from hand steering is that it is feels very dead compared to the monhulls I have sailed. There is essentially no feedback at all and the loads on the wheel feel very light even in comparison to much smaller 'normal' boats. The linkage between wheel and rudder is rope and the give in this seems to make it hard to get the boat 'in the groove', but once there it tracks beautifully.

So. Any thoughts, suggestions on what to go for ? Especially from the cat sailors - my feeling is that the autopilot on a cat has to deal with much lighter loads but needs to be faster and more responsive than on a monohull. But I have limited cat experience so I may be talking rubbish (again).
 
Wharram always goes for simple. In general it makes sense. Easy to replace a rope steering system. Try & get a set of Bowden cables when in the back of beyond.

I have a 32' ketch with destroyer wheel & bowden cables, one turn lock to lock. I have had a navico wheelpilot 3000 for years & it has been excellent. But probably not a current model.
 
Normal that a cat has a much lighter feel than a mono. The lack of grip on the water by comparison to a mono, means that the rudder has less feel, on top of that you have two rudders, so much more grip probably from the rudder than any other part of the boat.

I think the wharram has better grip than my catalac, but if it can be afforded, a S1 system including rate aided gyro would be the best. Your problem comes from how it is connected to the system, and I am not sure if the wheel drive can be connected to it. Best ask Raymarine direct.
 
My recommendation is don't. In my experience wheel pilots are rubbish, they don't work when you need them. At all other times they are fine.

Get a proper hydraulic pilot.
 
An old style Autohelm 3000 - the one with the remote bomb shaped motor and belt drive would be more than adequate powerwise and are reliable and long lasting. No longer available new, but you should be able to pick one up secondhand.
 
The one that died was a 3000. It seems to have worked well for many years for the previous owner. A replacement would be ideal, any suggestions where to find one ?

I will look at the S1, linking the drive to the wheel may be a challenge. Hydraulic is not an option - it would simply be impossible to fit.
 
I had an Autohelm 3000 on a 32' mono and it never missed a beat in 3 years full time cruising. Mine had the metal bodied motor with belt drive. I believe this model later had a plastic bodied motor and an enclosed gear drive.
My 42' ketch had a hydraulic system with the ram operating directly on the steering quadrant below decks. This also worked well and had the added advantage of providing steering if the wheel cables broke.
 
They come up on ebay from time to time. Have you tried getting it repaired? Is it the motor, the compass or the electronics that have failed? You might try emailing Raymarine for advice. If it is the motor, a replacement may be economical.

I am just upgrading to a 4000 using the latest drive system, mainly because although reliable the 3000 was a bit marginal in heavy weather, but I shall keep the 3000 as a back up!
 
Thanks. Yes we have tried to locate the problem(s) and fix it. The problem is that we can't get any parts locally, all has to be carried by a traveller. So we can't do the usual incremental process.

The rudder sensor died and was replaced with ENORMOUS difficulty, but the motor also seized up, it has now been stripped and cleaned. The system is still not working right and I fear the computer is dead too. I suspect we have reached the point where we should just replace the whole thing. The boat was left in Durban harbour for nearly 2 years completely unused and deteriorated badly.

S1 I have been looking for an installation manual for the S1, I can't find one that describes the method of attaching drive to wheel, any pointers ? Also the manuals I have found only describe a rotary rudder position sensor, not the linear one which is the only type that will work for us. And the one we have is brand new, does anyone know if a linear sensor will work with the S1 ?


Many thanks all
 
Can help with the drive to wheel. It clamps to the wheel spokes with u bolts and rubber buffers. It is marked out for various alternative spoke spacing. The drive motor is attached to the pedestal with a bracket, and there is a fixed post also to the binnacle. Alternatively there is a bulkhead mounting kit, which I am using on my Bavaria. If you PM me an email address, I can scan in the relevant sections of the instructions for you.

Cant help on the sensor as I do not have one fitted on my boat, which has a 4000 control head rather than the latest S1.
 
That's a nice wiring diagram Q_E_Too, Carl, just the sort of thing I need as a memory map for the mess of wires on board!Well done , wish I could get the reality to look as neat!Have printed it to bring on board!Best Regards Paul.Hope whipper-snapper also finds the various helpful posts useful! Happy St. Patrick's Day! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
I found that my wheelpilot was mostly used for locking the wheel and occasional lightwind motoring, it was ok for this. I don't mind steering the boat most of the time, so I'm happy not to have paid the extra 1200 quid for a proper system.
depends on your needs and expectations. And how carefully you're prepared to set up the gain, damping, seastate adjustments. Our Navico seemed to take a long time to settle down, it would saw the wheel back and forth for the first few minutes. I wouldn't trust it for using the cruising chute above F2.
 
I have a simrad WP10 the kind that fits behind the wheel. Although it does keep a decent course, even with the slightly floppy rudders; I would not recommend one.

It is supposed to be ultra intelligent and learn the boat as it goes, rather than what it does in reality, bzzt bzzt bzzt bzzt bzzt bzzt bzzt bzzt bzzt bzzt bzzt bzzt bzzt all the live long day!

I have tried damping, calibration, the works. I have seen similar complaints, even from monohulls. Like I said, it does keep a perfect course, but a couple of hours is about as much as you can take on a quiet relaxing afternoon. I use it more successfully when under engine. OTOH the clutch is great for locking the wheel and if set up balanced we often use it turned off as a third hand.
 
surely any autopilot will do what a human does, and make constant small corrections,rather than huge ones. Any autopilot will need mechanical input of some sort, so will make a noise, while human input will make none?
 
EDIT> A human will not steer into every movement, the boat will generally always come back, it would be rather exhausting if you had to drive a yacht like a car and constantly need to adjust.

The point I was trying to make was that even fully balanced the simrad just wont settle, the constant mini adjusts are not necessary, she is in a trough and sailing good and straight. A good pilot will allow for small movements (waves, gusts) but the Simrad tries to correct everything. I can set it off rocking the boat.

There is a little play in my rudders, there is no way to remove this as they use a tie-bar, too tight and you can't turn them. But even with this, a pilot should allow damping, no?

The original unit, a belt driven type did not have the problems the Simrad has, I wish I had gone for the same again. The original was robbed when she was in the yard (only the motor and compass, so a fellow boater!). I went for the Simrad for the security of having it fitted and fixed to the boat. Ho hum. At £500 it is not something I can just change on a whim, although this was my first and life's only insurance claim, I still feel guilty!
 
I have limited experience with auto helms, but to me they all mnake noise so I either ignore the noise, or take over? I can't see (hear) any autohem that would make no noise.
 
You have thumping great pistons bangin up and down, I think that makes a massive difference to what you will put up with.

The other problem is each time it moves it is using power, on a small yacht power is limited. Not teaching you to suck eggs, but it really can be a different mindset. It is especially more annoying when you are alone on watch, if there are people about you talk over it and it can fade into the back ground.

It I was replacing it, I would go for one connected to the rudder stock, out of the way and below decks. I am considering hydraulic steering at the moment anyway as the steering box is starting to show signs of wear and tear.
 
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