What's YM up to?

[Guest]

What\'s YM up to?

First of all there was "Love me love my boat" (Aug 2001) which I thought would be very useful advice for enticing my mate to a life of long term cruising. You see, I have been yearning to chuck it all in, buy a reasonable 10-15 year old cruiser for a max. of 100K, and leave enough money in reserve for enjoying the cruising life. Consequently, when sailing our 7m yacht in Oz I was very particular in trying to make it an enjoyable experience for the mate.

Next we get the August issue and I'm flabbergasted to read that the majority of boats that made the crossing were in the 40ft range, and were pretty high class yachts. But what really knocked my socks of was the lady who said to her husband she would only go cruising if she had a dishwasher and a home theatre on board!

Well imagine if my mate had seen the article. "I'll only go sailing with you if I can have a washing machine and some flower boxes along that nice teak deck!!" There goes my cruising budget - all we would be able to afford is a YM rally to Portugal and back, fish and chips for supper.

So what's YM upto. To entice our better halves(?) to take up the cruising life are we going to see Gear Tests - Nautical Washing machines, Sailing Skills - How to stow planter boxes for Biscay crossings, Destination Guide - Boutiques and Supermarkets of Cherburg?

I think I might chuck it all in go and buy a cottage in Provence, and a days-ailer on a trailer!! At Classic Boat still seems down to earth with it's sailing articles.

 

[Guest]

Selling dreams ..and boats

I think that you'll find that there are substantial number of people who still go long distance in smaller yachts, they just don't make a fuss about it!

A 40ft yacht is about at the limit of what most couples can handle. Even the Hiscocks went back to smaller yachts following a circumnaviagtion in a 45 footer.

Whilst it is true that we are gradually getting more wealthy so that some can afford these bigger boats, you don't need one and in my experience they become a liability in port or in any kind of weather because the loads are just too great to manhandle the boat when just when you need to.

YM is selling a dream to those who have the where withall, I'll bet the majority of these craft never leave The Solent let alone The Channel. Good luck to them if they can afford them and keep them penned up. It leaves more of the sea for the rest of us.

Chris Enstone, Rival Spirit

 

[billmacfarlane]

Re: What\'s YM up to?

There are many boats that cross the pond that are smaller than 40' and as Chris said they just don't make a fuss. I'm not sure whether YM's report is representative to the whole cruising world or specific to that rally. As a general rule the bigger the boat the more comfort but it comes at a price of heavier deck gear to handle the greater stresses and strains. I can't see a problem sailing a 40' boat in the open sea as long as the deck gear can cope. As Chris said manoeuvering it in harbour is a different story.
Having a washing machine aboard a 40' cruiser sounds faintly ridiculous. How much water do you need for it ? Not to mention power. If you want to sell it to your other half it might be an idea to charter something of the size you want to buy for a week and see how both of you cope.

 

[AndrewB]

Re: What\'s YM up to?

When we reached Barbados three years ago there were 24 yachts anchored in Carlisle Bay that had just crossed. The average length was 35 feet, and 8 were 30 feet or less.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Washing Machine

Fresh water, washing machine? Who needs it, only dirty people wash.

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: What\'s YM up to?

My recollection of YM's review of the first round the world rally was that there were very few yachts above 35 ft or so that had crews of only two, and some had four or five. I agree all said above, it has long been said that 35 ft is the ideal size for a sailing couple and our choice is exactly that for as long as we can manage it. Even with very large genoa sheet winches for a masthead rig I am hard pressed to sheet strongly enough and my wife cannot get even close. Anchor loads are too much for her, even with a windlass.

There are some excellent manual washing machines on sale in France, often seen in use on campsites. Water capacity is quite low. And we've got two dishwashers - the redundant one dries the plates, puts them away and wipes the table.

 

[Guest]

It\'s symptomatic of the industry!

Few articles in any of the sailing magazines challenge the reader - they tend to lack depth and fail to tackle the more complex aspects around the various issues.

I found the rally article almost useless - I learned nothing from all of it's pages. That's fine for Libby's articles or True Confessions (my favourite parts) as they are intened as enterainment, but it's no good for feature articles.

It IS easier to write about boats with washing machines and other nonsense, than it is to write a technical article about re-wiring an electrical panel, or to explain how to perform an advanced aspect of navigation (other than Astro, we've had enough of those recently).

Perhaps it's because small boats aren't being bought NEW for sailing across oceans to the same extent as the 40' ranges? Perhaps it's advertising related - the articles are being written but the editors are screening them out to fit a certain image?

We are all supposed to aspire to these new gadgets: washing machines, on-board microwaves, electric winches, Full size double beds in aft cabins.

It seems (in my opinion, of course) that the articles which endeavour to teach experienced sailors something, are generally too short to be of use (one page, 25% photos), while the waffling articles about how some clot lost his boat go on for pages and pages. Why? (and why the fascination with people who lose their boats - not exactly people to learn from?).

 

[bedouin]

Re: It\'s symptomatic of the industry!

Why?

Because the primary aim of these r/mags is to entertain not to inform.

Can't really blame them for that. The with 'informative' articles is that they are often of no interest at all to most of the readers, whereas the more narative articles can appeal to the entire audience.

My wife very much enjoys YM, I tend to prefer PBO or (dare I mention it?) ST.

Horses for courses!

 

[jamesjermain]

Good to see you back on board, Viv/Humperdink. nm

.

JJ

 

[Grehan]

Boating Industry

Yes, I agree with Humperdink.

I think 'yotting' should, rather than harking back to some 'golden age' of wooden boats and hemp ropes (when men were men, sailing was a small exclusive club, and sailors were . . .) and rather than fixating on the latest bloomin' consumer gadgets, concentrate more on giving the customer (sorry, horrible word that) better products (there's another one!).

That is, products properly suited to safe, efficient, enjoyable - easy, even - Sailing.
[I don't mean pottering around the local boating lake, nor do I mean stripped down for action racing either, nor do I mean ocean-going capability at the expense of any kind of proper contemporary marina close-quarters manouvrability. Nor do I mean never leaving the mooring, or anchoring, nor hardly ever using the boat, nor 'sailing' always under power never using those big flappy things.]

And yes, maybe 'Sailing' does include - as incidentals - a few 'human comfort' things like clothing, cooking, washing, etc. And as natural inclusions aids and instrumentations, GPS, communications, etc.

Properly suited products like the modern motor industry produces for example.

And don't be too cynical. I know there's a lot of boring Euro-uniformity, and a fair bit of 'the latest advanced cup-holder' featurising, but motoring has never been a more reliable and safe activity. Thanks to huge investment in design (not merely 'styling'), engineering and manufacturing quality. Compare its excellent products with those of twenty years ago or more. Remember British Leyland? Remember the Lancia Beta?

[Shame about all the other drivers jamming up the place.]

Modern boat "design" still kind-of means 'gadgets' plus 'which hardwood veneer will the interior be tricked-out in'. Not enough design engineering? Not enough 'engineering assessment' [=real sailing ability] in the magazines (as compared with 'how to fettle your oil flange gasket pipe')

When will the Malaysians/Koreans/Japanese wake up the European/US marine industry?

[Mind you, at least boats are generally more reliable than computers . . .]

 

[Guest]

Re: Boating Industry

Well, we'd all like to see the magazines having articles on whatever kind of sailing we personally do or want to do. Many think that the quality of articles has become aimed at a lower level whereas it may just be the reader has become more experienced.

Don't you enjoy the odd bit of harking back to the days when sails were canvas, men were men etc. Do you enjoy reading Riddle of the Sands?

Unlike you I'd like to see more of the ocean cruising stuff, not because I do loads of ocean cruising, but because I want to and I enjoy reading about it.

As for assessing real sailing ability, oh yes please! But the analogy with the motor industry is a false one. Cars have become more efficient, but that's because of massive investment in R&D. Yacht design is dictated 99% by fashion, there is very little room for R&D budget, and anyway there's no easy way to prove whether it works when the chips are down, except subjective experience and word of mouth.

I agree entirely that advances in yacht design have been highly questionable - mostly been limited towards how to get away with massive accomodation at the expense of sailing ability. But you're in danger of entering the great BenJenBav debate!

 

[billmacfarlane]

Re: Boating Industry

Not again please Simon. I thought I was the only yotty who didn't enjoy reading the Riddle of the sands. I couldn't even finish it .

 

[Guest]

Re: What\'s YM up to?

Unfortunately we don't hear about these "statistics".

Twenty odd years ago I managed Biscay in a 28 footer, and thought nothing about it (but I was more keen than knowledgable). However, as much as I enjoy reading YM I do get frustrated by the lack of information about the "no fuss voyages". How did these people cope with selling up and turning their dreams into a reality? What was the motivation for choosing a particular yacht, and what are the financial pitfalls?

Just owning owning the latest and greatest yacht and all the gadgetry does not necessarily make for plain sailing. I agree with the other contributors about the forces of the marine industry, but YM is in a great position to present some real sailing. Yes, we get a regular cruising accross the world from A to B series, but I still miss the "Cruising Home" articles - they seemed to epitomise what sailing was all about.

I still enjoy reading YM as it provides an escape while I'm boatless in non-nautical Malaysia. However, it will be hard to justify the magazine if it just becomes a vehicle for the marine industry.

 

[AndrewB]

More detail on the yachts in Carlisle Bay ...

Like you I was interested in motivation, and putting on my 'market research' hat I asked a few questions when we arrived in Carlisle Bay.

There were 25 foreign yachts anchored when we arrived Carlisle Bay, including ourselves, but excluding four charter yachts. This included 12 British (one US owned); 4 Dutch (one Swiss owned); 3 German; 2 French; 2 Canadian; 1 Irish; 1 Spanish.

The yachts seemed far less like the selection of ocean greyhounds that we had seen preparing to cross when we had been in Corunna. To our surprise at 38 feet LOA our own yacht was a little above average. The median length was 35 feet: 8 of the 25 were 30 feet or less.

All were monohulls. Apart from one Dutch motorsailor, rigs were all conservative masthead sloops, cutters, ketches: no seven-eight rigs, swept back spreaders, sugar-scoop sterns (which don't take wind-vanes). Seven were of steel construction: two were wood, one aluminium, one ferro, fourteen GRP or composites. Five yachts were double-ended.

We saw the crews of 20 of the yachts. 13 were couples, mostly middle aged or early retirement, but with four in their 20's. Of the remainder, two were families, three were male only and two were singlehanders. It is however hard to be too specific as so many crews were changing in Barbados: wives were flying out to join husbands; crews who had helped with the Atlantic passage were returning. At least half the couples had sailed over on their own, though not the singlehanders. One of the families included a middle-aged couple with a nearly adult daughter: the other, more unusual, were a young family with two under-5's.

We spoke to 16 of the crews, including ten of the British yachts. Of these 15 had arrived via the Atlantic, two direct from Spain, the rest via the Canaries and seven had also stopped at the Cape Verde Islands. One singlehander (French) had not crossed, but arrived from Martinique. Typically yachts were staying between two and eight weeks in Barbados.

Barbados is at a dividing point in routes. Five of the boats were undertaking circumnavigations, eight were on some sort of Atlantic circuit, while three had no plans to move on from the West Indies. Atlantic circuits were typically for two years: circumnavigations longer. The longest anyone had been continuously cruising was seven years.

Nine were pretty much unlimited in their time horizons. This included both singlehanders, but mostly comprises early retirees, comparatively affluent. Of those limited in some way, three - mostly young, in the "salt water hippy" group - said they were sailing until the money ran out. (We found later that this often this happens before the trip is complete, leaving desolate wrecks for sale buried in the mangrove swamps in Antigua and elsewhere). Two had leave of absence from jobs, and two appeared limited by partners who disliked sailing.

The range of experience was vast. For example: "We are now on our third circumnavigation. There seems no reason to stop." This crew seemed to be the only one to be making any money as they went, mainly by diving. Others had thought of writing or sail repair, but these are crowded fields. At the other extreme: "I had never sailed before when I decided to buy a yacht and go around the world. At first I found it unpleasant and frightening, specially trying to manage a crew when I had no experience, and would have given up but I was too committed. Now I am completely hooked".

 

[ChrisJ]

Re: More detail on the yachts in Carlisle Bay ...

What an excellent summary. Thanks.

Now a quick suggestion, to see if it can make any money for you...

Take this report, top and tail it with how you arrived at the bay and where you are off to next, add some pictures of the people and their yachts, and sell it as the first of a series.

Then repeat the exercise at the next [major] port of call.

I wont be visiting those sort of places for 10 or 15 years myself, but it makes good reading and provides a nice target to aim for.
The comments, like "Why stop?", are great.

Cheers, Chris

 

[Grehan]

Re: More detail on the yachts in Carlisle Bay ...

Without wanting to embarass or even patronise you AndrewB, that was a first-class reply (clear and terrifically informative) and a first-class use of this Forum.

Sincere thanks.

 

[KrisHansen]

Re: What\'s YM up to?

I know what you mean, but unfortunately I've found myself in a situation where I have to compromise. There is no question about it - no matter what tricks I pull as suggested by Larry and Lin Pardey in "Love Me, Love My Boat", my girlfriend will hardly set foot on any boat without a hot shower and a decent heads, nor will she be pursuaded to take much part in the actual sailing.

As a result, my dream of owning a beautiful wooden gaff cruiser is unthinkable - I have to look at a modern, creature-comforts yacht with cockpit control lines and autopilot, so that I can sail her almost singlehanded.

The only other option is to leave my partner behind whenever I go off anywhere, which is not really possible. Having said that, I would draw the line at a washing machine - but conceded to the 12V TV and DVD player!!

- Kris Hansen