whats fuel additive do you use?

Ah, that's better, thanks. I don't want to spend a lot of money downloading the standard but from the abstract it doesn't seem to be about assessing the risk of causing blockages in diesel engine systems; it is about measuring the magnitude and type of micro-organisms present which is quite another matter. Micro-organisms are not necessarily a problem and are present in one form or another in all of nature.

In my earlier post I was not precise in my wording. I am saying that no problem will occur if the diesel in your tank remains dry. Indeed, many of the additives are basically an emulsifier to absorb the water into the fuel where in due course it will be burnt. I fear that such products are potentially dangerous, particularly for sailing yachts where diesel is left in tanks for very long periods. If water is present it should be removed physically, by draining off some fuel at the bottom.

In well over 30 years of marine diesels I have never once had a problem with bugs. I got spooked some years ago by all the hype and spent a small fortune on Fuel Doctor before coming down to the Med but there it sits in the locker under our bed and my bank account is that much lighter.

I believe that if you keep the fuel dry there will not be a problem - if you take on dodgy fuel then drain the gunk off the bottom of the tank before it gets into the fuel system. I also believe that emulsifiers could cause the problem they are seeking to remove unless the turnover of fuel in the tanks is fast - OK for MoBos in service but not for most sailboats.
 
Contamination in form of Micro-org's is present in dry and "wet" fuel ... in fact is not only diesel - but happens in Lub-oil as well.
Your advise to drain of gunk / water is sound advise - but not a cure. It will delay or stave off eventual problem.
Frequent turn-over of a fuel tank in content is a good way to keep the system clear in fact ... as it is right that fuel that stands will "grow" micro-org's such that eventually you will have system failure.
Emulsifiers etc. are IMHO dangerous - as I do not relish the thought of dispersing a non-compressable medium into my fuel ... ie water.... even in tiny amounts. We use them in storage tanks - actually we use DE-emulsifiers to drop the water out rather than spread it !!

With all the testing / work we do - I cannot actually come up with a single definitive answer - as the subject has too many variables to consider. In fuel Moisture content, condensation, temperature, storage term, storage conditions, light / dark, blend of the fuel, source of fuel etc. etc. - the list goes on ...

But I will say this and I think you'll agree - good husbandry such as draining off tank bottoms, checking filters / tank contents is good advise and worth the effort.
Another point worth considering - find out where the most fuel is sold - that means that storage tanks are rotated more often on content and fuel is likely more fresh / younger than the lesser frequented outlet .... no guarantee, but might be worth it.
 
I think we are agreed that some if not many additives could be harmful? (i.e. those with emulsifiers).

I can't see that they are the way to go for marine diesels. Spend the money on means to remove a litre or so from the very bottom of the tank and use it regularly. Install a good filter - ideally a Separ or equivalent.
 
I have been running diesels, including a fleet of trip boats for nearly 20 years, and have yet to have a problem from anything other than dirty fuel from marine sales points who dont clean their tanks regularly.

I was once persuaded to try a 'well known' enzyme additive which was claimed to make engines run smoother. It didnt.

Here in the southern UK waxing is not an issue, and I am told that up north in the wilds the manufacturers add anti-waxing agents to their fuels anyway.

I once had an attack of 'bug sludge' - which nearly put me on the rocks outside Aberystwyth in a SW6, but thats another story! Physical cleaning of the tank was all that was needed, and it never returned in the years I owned that boat.

IMHO if it aint broke - dont fix it!
 
I use fuel set on every fill up. I had a problem with the "Bug" stopped one engine, then the other, half way from miford to padstow. Changed my separs and cleaned them, happened again, dartmouth to falmouth, did the same thing, added fuel set, never had a problem since.
I will add, my fuel system as fitted to my mermaids, passes all the fuel in the tanks, through my filters and engines, back to the tanks, so in a longish journey, 10 hours or so, all the fuel in the tanks passes through my filters in effect "polishing" the fuel.
Now with the fuel set at each fill, I never have a problem, (clutching large piece of wood)!!! But do carry lots of spare filters!
By the way, would highly reccomend Separ filters.
It has never got through my separs and twin CAV engine filters, AFAIK.
 
My guess is that, as you say, your Separs polished the fuel having picked up a duff load. Do you need to carry on with the Fuel Set? Just keep an eye on the Separ bowls for crud or, better still, take off the crud from a lower level in the tank, which is the professional way. It's not as if any of these additives improve performance or engine life in any way, it is just like buying diesel for €50 per litre, or whatever.
 
The amount of fuel I use, (about 400 gals a year) the cost of the fuel set is minimal.
I do not tend to top up my tanks for winter, prefering to buy my fuel when and where I can get it cheap, (I have a contact here) so conditions for a bit of water in my tanks are always there, so if theres any bug around, I'm more likely to get it, but the Separs take any water out. I could get under my tanks and drain off any residue, but it's a bit of a task, in fact a big task, so I let my filters do the job for me.
I havent had any problems for the last eight years.
I change my separ filters every year, along with my engine filters, haven't seen any build up of water or "bug effluent" since that time in UK. So I will continue with the regime I have set for myself and the boat.
Basically it works for me "if it aint broke, dont repair it".
 
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Basically it works for me "if it aint broke, dont repair it".

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed. I've noticed noticed that gasolio here has stayed pretty steady despite the huge incrases in the price of crude. I suspect they are due to rise so I fuelled in Gib a few weeks ago and am sitting with full tanks right now.
 
I have a contact here, Sssssshhh!! I'm sure he gives me gasolio "B" at a price between "A" and "B" which I am not complaining about, but I have to take about 1000 liters minimum which is easy when your mate runs a 48' Riva!
I refuel once a year max. But of course I carry 2700 liters and despite her size, Englander is very easy on fuel, especially with all her sails up.
 
<< passes all the fuel in the tanks, through my filters and engines, back to the tanks, so in a longish journey, 10 hours or so, all the fuel in the tanks passes through my filters in effect "polishing" the fuel>>

isn't that the case with most diesel engines? Or am I kidding myself? The fuel on my little Yanmar goes through my main filter to the engine filter, then to the primary pump, then the main pump and the fuel not used by the single injector (most of it) goes back to the tank on the return pipe.
 
No, that is not the way a lot of diesel engines work/worked, the fuel is supplied to the fuel pump which in turn supplies the injector pump, when the fuel pressure in the injector pump is adequate, the fuel delivery pump goes into "Idle" until fuel is required and it then maintains the pressure, the small pipes you see on the top of injectors/pumps is the bleed off, of fuel which is bled off after lubricating the components within. A lot of modern engines now circulate the fuel around, thus doing away with the need to bleed the low pressure side of the system. The high pressure side is a different matter.
Yours may well be a full circulating system, I dont know without looking at it.
But a lot of engines are not this way.
 
bleeding fuel

It definitely needs bleeding on the low pressure side (believe me I know) so doesn't sound like your fuller description. It still does return an awful lot of fuel to the tank, and after half an hour running the fuel in the tank is warm. Of course, my tank is 6 gallons, not 2700 (made me feel giddy, reading that) so you notice when it warms.
Thanks
 
I'm hoping that I might be entitled to legal gasolio B if we buy the right sort of property here - how much is it per litre? I've never been able to find out as whenever I approach a filling station fellow he takes on the demeanour of a Praetorian guard, and refuses to discuss, and they never have the price on the pumps!
 
Re: bleeding fuel

It's quite common to feed the return to a designated (and intended) port on the primary filter (i.e. the CAV or Separ between tank and fuel LP fuel lift pump) so the closed loop does not go right back to the tank. This avoids trying to polish all the fuel and makes it less likely that, say, a litre of grunge will stop your engine as it will trickle through more slowly. You might be able to disconnect your return into the tank and take it to the filter. You don't really want a tank of hot diesel.
 
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No, that is not the way a lot of diesel engines work/worked, the fuel is supplied to the fuel pump which in turn supplies the injector pump, when the fuel pressure in the injector pump is adequate, the fuel delivery pump goes into "Idle" until fuel is required and it then maintains the pressure, the small pipes you see on the top of injectors/pumps is the bleed off, of fuel which is bled off after lubricating the components within. A lot of modern engines now circulate the fuel around, thus doing away with the need to bleed the low pressure side of the system. The high pressure side is a different matter.
Yours may well be a full circulating system, I dont know without looking at it.
But a lot of engines are not this way.

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All old and new diesels I have seen on boats ... and I add the old BMW 5 2.5ltr D - useless piece of German rubbish I have to say !! - have all had fuel returns to tank ... in fact Perkins use that fuel return on some cold start systems to keep the glowplug supplied.
I've even had to repair return line on a 4-99 - now thats an old engine ... 1950's taxi / bus engine.

(edit) In fact I just asked my Service guy ... he reckons that near all engines with injection have to have return lines ... petrol and diesel.
 
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