What's a shackle? (big ship anchoring)

[Twister_Ken]

What\'s a shackle? (big ship anchoring)

Merchant ships seem to refer to the amount of chain let go when anchoring as x shackles. How long is a shackle in this sense (presumably it is a length of chain separated by shackles from its neighbours?)

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[Mirelle]

Re: What\'s a shackle? (big ship anchoring)

15 fathoms, aka 90ft.

Until the early 1980's U shaped joining shackles with a wooden pin through the pin were used to join the 15 fathom lengths; these are now obsolete and Kenter shackles, which look like an ordinary stud link, are used instead. These are less likely to jump on the gypsy.

It is correct, but perhaps pedantic, practice to anchor with a joining link on deck, so that if the cable has to be slipped it can be broken at that point - for this reason big ship men refer to anchoring with so many "shackles" out. However, most seamen today would just gas axe the cable if they had to break it - older ships did not routinely carry oxy-acetylene cutting gear, but this is now normal.

It must once have been normal practice to sell yacht chain in 15 fathom "shackles" because my boat's chain is 3 x 15 fathom lengths, joined with U shackles.

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[anthonyyearsley]

Re: What\'s a shackle? (big ship anchoring)

BR 827 'A Seaman's Pocket Book' of June 1943 states 'The length of a shackle is 12 1/2 fathoms' on page 64 in the chapter on 'Anchors and Cables'. It goes on to say that it is usual to have 12 shackles of cable for each ship's main anchor and that merchant ships and fishing vessels do not use the term, using fathoms as their unit of length. I should add that the book is 'By the authority of the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty'!

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[Twister_Ken]

Re: What\'s a shackle? (big ship anchoring)

Don't know about merchantmen not using it. I asked because when stuck in Dover a week or two back waiting for some strong winds to blow through, the ferries were dropping an anchor to windward and going astern into the RoRo berths against it. They also hauled back on the anchor to lift themselves off the berths (where otherwise they might have been pinned by windage). In their conversations with port control they were referring to shackles laid or recovered..

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[Mirelle]

Trust the Andrew...

(a) not to know what merchant ships do,
and
(b) to use a slightly different unit of measurement to everyone else!

Oh, dear, I have just been reminded of a old, doubtless out-dated, jibe:

The RN is for gentlemen pretending to be seamen...

The P&O is for seamen pretending to be gentlemen...

The rest of us are just...

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[Guest]

15 fthms yes .... and ....

The joining shackle at the 15 fthm point is slightly larger with thicker stud bar in centre than the normal links so it is easily recognisable.

The number of links either side of that joining shackle are painted to indicate the number of the shackle and the last painted link at the number is also fitted with a stainless band around the centre stud bar to show it as the last in the number ........ some ships even go so far as to paint that link a different colour to the others !! so that when its flying out over the gypsy the officer supervising the ops can visibly see it go out.

Having been one of those officer for near 17 years before coming ashore .........

As to terminology .......... 6 in the water = 6th joining shackle at the 90 fathom point actually put below the surface of the water .....
6 on deck ...... that 6th shackle is on deck between the gyspy and hawse pipe ........ navel pipe yotties call it !!!!

As far as I am aware - there has never been any D shackle anywhere in a ships anchor setup except at the actual anchor stock to chain joint. It would never pass over any gypsy safely old or new.



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

Re: Trust the Andrew...

One famous Shipping Co. asked for Admiralty Warrant to wear swords !!!! So the story goes ....

I believe the answer was - wear what you like - but there will be no warrant and the swords should be wooden !!!

Ok - lets get on to another point that took ages for the Andrews to get away from ....... 'Tiller related steering orders' instead of actual direction orders ....... port easy meant the ship turned to starboard !!!!! I couldn't believe it when I found out !!!! I thought it was Hornblower Poetic Licence !!!!!

Anyway - 15 fathoms and shackles are used universally at sea except where nationality language changes it !!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Mirelle]

Re: 15 fthms yes .... and ....

Nigel, I think the shackle you are describing is what I called a Kenter shackle. The D type were always fitted with the round end towards the anchor, so that the chain would run out reliably, even if getting it in was sometimes interesting. (Your employers may have been more technically advanced than mine, and gone to Kenters sooner...)

Anyway, here is a nice trade website with pictures of both sorts, so Ken can see what we are on about!

http://www.h-lift.com/anchorchain.htm

I always thought that "Navel pipe" was another Andrew expression, taken over by yachting along with notions like bare wood decks (useful for keeping the vast crew of a sailing warship busy, but never found in sailing merchant ships!)



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[Guest]

Re: 15 fthms yes .... and ....

Admiralty Cast Lugless Shackle ....... with a steel pin and lead plug.

The wooden pin you refer to was often used by GCD Ships to facilitate removal of the anchor and securing vessel by chain via the hawse to a buoy etc. Common in India with Ellerman Lines, P&O, Strick Line etc.

As I seem to recall the D was actually D pin to anchor, not round to anchor ....... how are you going to get the shackle through the stock eye ????

Anyway fair winds !!

Look out someones going to tell us we were wrong to use anchor chain soon - should have used mooring rope !!!!!! OOPS !!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Mirelle]

There\'s an International Convention on that!

which came into force (for mere merchant ships) in 1930. I was not around then, but I did, when younger, know some elderly seadogs who remembered the event - and the spate of collisions and groundings that ensued in the weeks following the change over!

...

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[Twister_Ken]

Phoar!

Wow. Thanks for that link Mirelle. How does one open/close the Kenter shackle?

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[Twister_Ken]

Fathoms?

Does the merchant marine really still use fathoms to measure anchor chain when virtually every chart is now metric?

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[LadyInBed]

Re: Phoar!

It's done like this . . .
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.sotra.net/marine/slac/kenter-shackle.html>http://www.sotra.net/marine/slac/kenter-shackle.html</A>

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[Twister_Ken]

Re: Phoar!

clever innit?

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[Mirelle]

Re: Fathoms?

Yes. One shackle is 15 fathoms, aka 90 feet. Universally used throughout the world. And for all practical purposes a cable, i.e. one tenth of a sea mile, is 200 fathoms, and guess how long a standard coil of rope is!

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[Mirelle]

Re: Phoar!

Just as Nigel says, there's a lead pellet holding the steel pin in place - you bash that out first. Then you bash the pin out with a drift and then you need the maker's gadget to force the middle bit out out, at which point the thing falls into two halves. As you can see, it's very wonderful, and easily done in the bottom of a dry dock with the cable ranged, but at 0200 on a wet foredeck in a rising gale you might be more likely to go for the gas torch. Much like yottin, really - it's all easy when you are not in a hurry! The important thing to do is to write in the Log that you attempted to separate the chain at the shackle - makes life much easier for your owners' Average Adjuster when he puts the insurance claim together!

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[Hoaroak]

Re: Phoar!

The 12and a half fathom shackle was the old RN length (do they still use it?) All professional (real) seamen use the standard 15 fathom merchant navy measurement.

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[MainlySteam]

Re: Trust the Andrew...

The modern navy usage for "port easy" is now "right hand down a bit".

John

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[Mirelle]

Nationality and language

Having worked for some years in a Chinese shipping company, I am in a position to state that the Mandarin/Putonghwa for "shackle" is "shackle" and the meaning is identical!

(Incidentally the trade site for chain supply I quoted above is Chinese).

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[peterb]

Re: There\'s an International Convention on that!

I'm not sure about an international convention, but helm orders were clearly still giving problems as late as 1948. That's why the 1948 IRPCS (which came into force in 1954) included as its last rule:

Rule 32 All orders to helmsmen shall be given in the following sense: right rudder or starboard to mean “put the vessel's rudder to starboard”; left rudder or port to mean “put the vessel’s rudder to port.”

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