What wind would you go out in?

[Sailfree]

Events over last weekend make me wonder?

The Question you are in Cherbourg and want to get back to the Solent.

Senario1

Wind is Northerly but steady what Force would you not go out in?

Senario 2

Wind is North and to forecast to increase by a F1-2 more. What force would you not set out in?

Senario 3

For the above but wind is a reach.


Just interested in others replies, you may want to mention size of boat as it may be a factor in your decision. Obviously you can leave the boat in Cherbourg for 1 week and catch a ferry but would your decision be different if say you were in Carteret?

 

[Judders]

The crew I have is just as important as the boat.

 

[FullCircle]

35ft boat, well found
SWMBO and Crew of little out of sight of land experience.
F6 to set out in deep water
F5 in close waters with lots of bits to go aground on. ie. no sea room. Where I live in fact.
Steady forecast or decreasing. Lows at least one sea area away giving ok to marginal conditions based on above.
I value the permission on the boat budget, and wish to develop SWMBO in a calm measured fashion.
We spent 300 quid this week on extra berthing, train fares and petrol leaving the boat in Ramsgate. I still think that is value for money.


Hairy lads weekend? F7 probably with lots of experience, particularly if I get incapacitated or injured so someone can bring the boat back in. Depends on how long it has been rock and roll for, and when it is forecast to go away again.

It is never based on getting to work on Monday.

 

[Sailfree]

In the circumstances described and your suggestion of a lads weekend would you really set out in a N wind from Cherbourg to Solent in a F7?

No implied criticism just trying to learn what others would do and compare it to my limited experience. I am confident that your well found 35' AWB can make it more a case of comfort/pleasure etc and I supose a bit of what is prudent.

 

[flaming]

40 foot cruiser racer.

30 knots is about the point where I start getting a tad jumpy about a long beat, especially if it's set to increase. I'd probably be happy reaching in 35 with a strong crew. Especially cross channel, as with that amount of wind you'd easily be able to reach across in daylight. With 35 on the nose you'd almost ceratinly have to do some night hours, and that's just not my idea of fun.
For staying inside the Solent the cut off would be closer to 40 with a strong crew.

 

[ChrisE]

I've set out from Alderney for Poole in a N6 that turned into a N7 in our Rival 38. Wouldn't do it again from choice but fundementally no probs with boat just bloody bouncy and, at 30 degrees plus heel for 70 odd miles, none too comfortable.

I've also *enjoyed* 2 days of a NW6/7 travelling N, again no probs with boat.

 

[FullCircle]

Sorry, Gentlemen don't beat. So going straight into it for 100 miles would not be a good thing. We would probably stick our noses out for a look, then return and retire to pub. An honourable retirement.
I was not thinking Cherbourg. Mea Culpa, I didnt read the question correctly.

 

[mono]

Forecasts never seem to predict just 6 do they? It's always either 5-6 or 6-7. Every time I sailed up the East coast on a Saturday from the Crouch to the Orwell I seemed to face a beat back in a predicted 5-6 on the Sunday. So the answer for me is F6 - but I prefer 3 on the nose or 4 from behind (ooer mrs!).

 

[Stemar]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, Gentlemen don't beat. So going straight into it for 100 miles would not be a good thing. We would probably stick our noses out for a look, then return and retire to pub. An honourable retirement.
I was not thinking Cherbourg. Mea Culpa, I didnt read the question correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]IMHO, Cherbourg or not, the answer's the same.

Snapdragon 24, crew SWMBO & me

F3-4 on the nose would be OK, maybe building to 5 later, but no more and make sure I've got plenty of diesel, cos it's a motorsail home.

If it's dropping (and I believe the forecast!) I might head out in a 5 gusting 6. Otherwise it's /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif and the ferry home.

 

[SteveB_Sigma33]

Having done the said trip in a forcast F6 -7 Occasional 8 which actually turned into F8 - 9 just shy of 10, I would say that even the hardiest of crew can start to succumb to the constant howling wind, large lumpy seas and of course sea sickness. We struggled on through and after 18 hours made land fall at Poole (return trip did end up with us off of Portland Bill and we made our way up to Poole). A boat who had headed out into the storm just after us ended up turning and running back to Cherbourg, she suffered 2 knock downs in the process. We stuck it out and beat through and did not suffer any knock downs.

Would I do it again, I don't think so, it cost a lot as some of my older electronics gave up the ghost after the event (boat was very wet inside).

However, I am pleased that I have been through something like that as I know my boat will hold together a lot longer than what the crew can. Good learning curve and if I do get caught out again in something like that I know what to do and I think I'm better prepared to meet such a challenge.

I would add I have been sailing for a good few years and have been trained by a mate who is ex RN and likes training in windy conditions. Those weather conditions are certainly not for novices.

 

[Judders]

Foxcub. Usual Crew is SWMBO

First question is how the hell did we end up here? We were only going to Bembridge and that was ambitious!

 

[Brierley]

26' trailer sailer (technically a motor-sailer)

Scenario 1 (Northerly but steady): probably would get the ferry or wait another day if anything more than F3-4 forecast as I hate beating to windward and we would motor /motorsail back. Would also depend on sea-state

Scenario 2 (North and to forecast to increase by a F1-2 more): See Scenario 1. Wouldn't set off in more than F2-3

Scenario 3 (wind is a reach): Would set off in F4-5 if forecast was steady or dropping. Would not attempt to sail 60+ miles in stronger winds as manual helming for so long is very tiring. Might consider it if we had decent auto-helm or more crew (experienced) than just the two of us.

Happy that the boat would cope with all of it (already has done) - it's the crew that wouldn't!

 

[Lakesailor]

I think it may be a bit too strong

 

[dom]

Firt of all I think it depends on the boat, crew and the sails available. If you are on a well found yacht with a heavy weather jib and a good boat design then with adequate crew I would suggest you should be OK if the winds reach up to around 35 kts. It starts getting a bit nasty after that. BTW remove main genny if possible - it takes away more windage than you think.

Secondly and very importantly it depends on the expected sea state. This will be affected by many variables including tides, fetch, length of time wind expected to blow, wind direction changes and the existence of a cross swell. The French met give the significant wave height for the waves and swell. They also give expected maximum waves as a percentage of significant wave height.

Thirdly check how nasty squalls are likely to be 25kts squalling 50kts might be worse than a more constant 35. French met also provide this information.

Finally use your own eyes, call the UK or French met if unclear about anything and don't go if in doubt!

 

[Lizzie_B]

In my good old catalina 38 I would probably go out in a forecast steady or falling 5/6 with a good able crew whose abilities I was confident in.

If forecast was due to rise 1 or 2 forces a 4,

If reaching then I would go out in a steady or falling 7. If possible rise forecast I would go out in 5.

No worries about boat, have been out in far worse.
Just do not enjoy getting beaten up by the weather now I'm old /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
So if there is a choice I would choose not to go.

On a friends Bavaria 34 you could probably reduce those wind strengths by 2 numbers. Again, no worries about the boat, but going to windward would be a long and uncomfortable ride in anything 5 and above.
However, down wind would be a different story. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[jonjo]

You say "want" to get back to the Solent and rather than need to get back to the Solent. In which case...
[ QUOTE ]
Senario1 - Wind is Northerly but steady what Force would you not go out in?

[/ QUOTE ]
Any more than the top end of a Force-3 won’t be fun for the first 12 hours. Even playing with the tides to obtain a lee-bow advantage we’re talking 16-18 hours.
[ QUOTE ]
Senario 2 - Wind is North and forecast to increase by a F1-2 more. What force would you not set out in?

[/ QUOTE ]
Same answer as 1. The Solent will seem closer by the time the passage changes from fun to tedious.
[ QUOTE ]
Senario 3 - For the above but wind is a reach.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a very different prospect. The wind should be warmer, lower angle of heel, boat speed will be 7-8kts rather than 5kts plus tacking = journey time nearly a half. In this case I would not want to set sail in more than 22kts.

Another factor is how many days has the crew been cruising together before this decision is made? A crew will be more robust at the end of a 2 week cruise rather than the return leg of a weekend fling across the Channel.

 

[Robin]

Well it all depends...

In days of yore 20 or more years ago when skippering company SC charter weekends I have returned from Cherbourg to the Solent in NE7 (Sigma 41), NE6-8 (Westerly Conway) and SW8 (Westerly Sealord 39), but then there were deposits at stake.

We (SWMBO and I) used to cross the Channel upwind in anything up to a forecast F6/7, even F6-F8 if we really wanted to get there/back but only if we could lay our destination in one tack and that was in our last boat a Westerly 33 Ketch. Downwind we would still go up to F8 forecast but with a beam wind the seastate would be of additional concern especially with a big spring tide running against the wind. However, after SWMBO used similar parameters in an answer on her YM Shorebased course and she saw how the instructors jaw dropped, she realised that it was not entirely normal and I lost a few nookie points. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

However as time went by, the gung ho Friday night trips lost their appeal in rough weather, this roughly coincided with the cessation of proper duty frees, the closure of Guerin's emporium and the new rules allowing us to bring duty paid stuff back in larger quantities per trip.

Nowadays, despite a larger and significantly faster boat we would probably limit an upwind crossing to F5 if reachable on one tack and F4 if tacking all the way. Downwind we have returned with a F8 broad reaching, twice. With a beam wind we have crossed twice with F7, once with big wind over tide springs and once with 6/8ths of the trip with wind and tide together and half way between neaps and springs. However, if we went out and the wind was above F5 upwind we would probably keep going if we really wanted to get there or home. Nookie would then be off the menu for some time..

HOWEVER, it all changes again if you throw in rain or fog or cold as well! Each one alone would account for a reduction of upwind windforce by one Beaufort, throw all of them in the pot and reduce by two forces Beaufort!

F5 in the Channel is quite rough, much more so than inshore and also there is a tide running at up to 4kts that can turn a 20kt F5 true wind into a 16kt F4 on one tide or a 24kt F6 on the other tide, all excluding additional apparent wind from boatspeed.

 

[Poignard]

Go on deck and strike a match. If it blows out - it's too windy to sail. If it doesn't - there's not enough wind to sail.

 

[Guest]

Greenwich light vessel reached 35knots at 1800 on the 28th.

Hurst Castle saw highest average of 30knots and maximum gust of 46knots on the 28th.

Channel light ship saw 43knots and a gust of 59knots.

So it was F8-9 gusting F11. For the early hours of Monday.


Thankfully, we all have some freedom left, if you like that sort of thing. After all the discussion of missing ships how on earth could you even see?

 

[pyrojames]

Sixes used to be our general guide for cruising. We beat into it for 2 days coming home from Bayona, before a SW change came through and blasted us into Falmouth in good 7s. The first two days in NE6 was horrible, the last day and half in 7s better fun. That was 2 up in a 33 footer.

For offshore now, 5 up and 6-7 downwind.