what to check before buying second hand

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cmedsailor

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Could you please tell me in detail what to check before purchasing a second hand sailing boat?
I am planning to buy a 36 feet, 5 years old sailing boat. In general it is in very good condition (from what I can see and judge) and even though I will have 2 persons (with large experience in owning boats) to check it I would like to know some things myself.
Thank you
 
at 5yrs old this must be a significant investment financhially. For peace of mind and an insurance necessity employ the services of a reputable surveyor. Try and be there at the end of the survey so the surveyor can discudd and demonstrate his findings. You can then be happy with your purchase and be aware of the warts if any exist.
 
You should engage a professional surveyor. You will probably be asked for a recent survey report when you are insuring the boat so you will need one anyway. The question you have put is very difficult to answer in any way that would be useful to you if your knowledge and experience are quite limited.
 
As already said, the only thing to check is the surveyor you will use. Worth asking on here if anybody has experience of surveyors in your area
 
Not a personal rant, honest ! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

cmedsailer needs a bit more help IMHO than a suggestion to engage a surveyor.

Can we help him with a few details on how to instruct a surveyor properly, and to interpret a survey report ?

Should, for instance, one recommend that the boat is surveyed out of the water (yes, but....) or that he is told to undertake a sea test of the engines, run up all the sails, check liferaft......

What about destructive /non-destructive testing ? Terms and conditions of the survey contract ? Non-visible areas of hull ? Pressure test the tanks or not ? Hull fastening / skin fittings.

Someone, somewhere should have a picklist of tasks and objectives, so that cmeds can help the surveyor focus on what he, the purchase, wants and to improve his knowledge of boats.

Seems the sort of thing the Forum is very good at - generating practical knowledge and encouraging people to get their hands dirty.
 
Check and negotiate all cost of mooring/transfer/access/travel lift before paying.

Check what is actually included. A lot of modern electronics are removable. Dinghies, safety.

As said get a survey and be in attendance when it is done. One trick to find damage/distortion to the hull is to wait until dark, with the boat out of the water, and shine a torch up and obliquely at the hull. You can see any unnatural shapes easily.
 
Probably the more important question is whether the boat is right for you. Unfortunately the only way to really answer this question is to own the boat for 12 months and ask yourself if you have used it and got the enjoyment out of it that you hoped. I say this because so many people find that buying the boat is the easy part. Owning and using the boat is the hard part. For most of us an investment of this magnitude really needs to be justified especially as it will take a lot of time to keep it up to scratch and to use it fully.

For this reason most of us find it better to start with a smaller cheaper boat to confirm if it is the right thing to do. Of course a smaller boat will not be as comfortable and might put you off the ocean and living on board which doesn't happen with a bigger boat. But certainly the bigger boat will be more demanding.
All this before you worry about where to keep the boat. This is a major cost and also determines the pleasure you get from the boat.

Obviously you want to be sure you will not end up spending a lot of extra time and cash on repairs or modifications to the boat so your question is valid and of course the answers you have been given. it is most likely a 5 year old boat will be in pretty near new condition. In fact it might be better having had the bugs worked out of it and that polyester smell dissipated. The engine should be in perfect condition as with the electronics and sails. Check for legals status of gas installation, mains electrical installation and sewerage system.

good l;uck olewill
 
I forgot one. If it is sold basically as seen, then make sure during the survey you take pictures of everything. The surveyor is looking at the boat, you are looking at what you are buying. Different viewpoint. If it is already stripped for winter then it is hard to make sure everything is back. Small bits missing are not costly, but anything custom is a hassle to replace without the original and will just delay your enjoyment of the boat.
 
Hints to the wise, an aid to building a picture:

1. Survey, yes - out of the water, structural only (or you will get a long inventory for which you are paying!) Feel the leading edge of the keel and rudder for any signs of impact - how did that happen?! Osmosis will not be a consideration, unless you see small bubbles/pits in the underwater surface. At 5 years the manufacturer's warranty will have just expired!

Rotate the prop by hand - any signs of misalignment, caused by impact? Looseness in the cutless bearing on the P/A bracket?: if you get a test in the water, there should be no vibration from the engine or stern gear - an expensive item if overlooked during the purchase.

No surveyor will give you a clean bill of health on the propulsion gear - he can't get inside to verify it, but he will say if it looks and feels neglected.

Feel the tension in the shrouds - bar taut? or slack? If taut, the boat will have been pushed, probabaly, even raced. If slack, the rigging will have been set up badly - not lethal, but an indicator of a less than clued up owner.

2. Regard electronics as expendable - no one can guarantee whether they will work after 1 day or 1 year. Sails will be well used, but should not be torn or stitching failing. In general you will not expect to have to fork out for replacement gear within 2-3 year's of buying a 5 year old boat in well kept condition.

3. Previous owner: reason for selling? Credible? Nice folks? Boat presented in apple pie order, or full of rubbish and ciggy smoke? Nice people have nice things - funny that.

4. You are entering a buyer's market - what other attitiude is there to take? Your initial offer will be not less than 10% off the asking, you have cash (don't you?)and no other boat to sell - worth a lot to the buyer. If not sold he has to store the boat for the winter 6 months, that alone will cost him £1500 in lost income and charges, and could inhibit the purchase of his next boat/projet...you get the picture. No time for sentimentality, there's always another deal.

Good luck, and don't hesitate to come back - there's a wealth of experience on this site, puts me to shame....


PWG
 
What type of boat are you thinking of? Are there others around, (perhaps in Europe), that may be better kitted for your intended use.

Where and how are you going to use the boat?

My plan was to travel to, and across The Med., living aboard.

With hindsight, I should have paid more, (or budgetted for fitting), for a boat with things such as:

Watermaker, A/C, Generator, Modern Charging System (Sterling/Adverk/Driftgate/Balmar), better dinghy/outboard, etc..

I'm not saying I would have got all this, (or that I will fit all of it), nor that you need it, merely that I didnt consider it, (didnt know i needed/wanted it).

I'm going to buy a portable Honda 2Kw generator and fit a charging system over the winter. I'll probably live without A/C, and will keep the dinghy and watermaker on the wish list for future years.

Cheers

Richard
 
When I was searching, there was no formula for getting info. from owners and then being able to compare specs. on a like for like basis. So I prepared a two page A4 questionnaire which I sent off, with a stamped addressed envelope, to all sellers whose boats I was interested in.

The manner in which replies were given(or not) was a real eye-opener and an invaluable insight into what maintenance had been done and what the owner actually knew about his or her boat.

In fact I would go so far as to say, for very little expense this simple document helped me avoid hacking about all over the country to see what would have been very disappointing boats in most cases.

If you would like a copy of this questionnaire, send me a PM with your e-mail address
 
Unless the vessel is a registered ship there is no guaranteed way( in the UK) of establishing what finance is outstanding for its purchase. Any scheme to try to improve this situation for leisure boaters is, sadly, voluntary and thus ineffective
 
Another peculiarity is that other debts attach to the boat (mooring fees, yard or storage charges, for example). Buy the boat, and the debts come to! Make sure that the bill of sale includes words to the effect of the seller 'warranting' that the boat is free from outstanding debts (lien?). The 'standard' bill of sale has this. Then make sure you know where the seller lives!

As others have said: Take nothing for granted.

Andy
 
May I recommend a book by the RYA called "The RYA book of buying your first Motor Cruiser" ( I know you are buying a yacht). I bought a copy this weekend to keep up to date and it seems good at explaining the process in an understandable way. Perhaps they do a book for buying a yacht? Anyway for £10.99 it could save you a lot more!!!!!!!!
Good luck.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Unless the vessel is a registered ship there is no guaranteed way( in the UK) of establishing what finance is outstanding for its purchase. Any scheme to try to improve this situation for leisure boaters is, sadly, voluntary and thus ineffective

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I know you can't get a marine mortgage unless the boat is registered. If it is registered, the UK Ship Register - for a fee of £21 - will check if a mortgage exists against that boat.
Mind you, you don't want to be in any hurry to know the answer, they have been running about 6 weeks in arrears this summer /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I don't know if you can buy boats on HP though, and the Ship Register might not know about that?
 
Hadn't seen that list before. Excellent. But he did miss out one item which can represent 10% of the boat's value - inventory. It's been partly referred to in earlier posting of this thread.

Such things as number of anchors, how much chain, life raft, life jackets, portable VHF, GPS, Binocs, hand bearing compass, bedding, galley equipment, tools . . . solar panels, generators, boarding ladders . . . one can go on and on.

So, make a list of what you'll need, and tick the items already there. Note the missing items and cost them.
 
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