What the hell is up with my electrics? :-(

h4nym

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 Jul 2001
Messages
202
Location
Worcester Park, Surrey
www.mustapha.com
Folks

I really need some help to try and even work out where to look! Cinnamon - our delightful Targa 33 - still knows how to put up a fight during this gorgeous weather!

Here's the symptoms...

3 batteries - 1 starboard, isolated to start the s'bd engine; 2 port batteries to start the port engine and run the domestic electrics.

Boat has been on shore power all week. Know that's working because the electic sockets that are attached to the shore power are all live and kicking.

Come to start up - s'bd engine won't start - no battery. Only when I moved the terminals over onto one of the port batteries would it turn over. Once s'bd had fired up, put the terminals back onto the "original" batteries and fired up the port.

Now - voltage meters on the dashboard indicate just over 13V on the s/board and never more than 12V on the port.

40-odd minute cruise later - stop to invesigate pubs / bird life etc and pose! All domestic electrics happy. Fridge, Stereo... everything cool.

When we come to depart, s/board engine turns over really slowly before eventually firing. port engine? lovely - turns over reassuringly quick before firing up happily.

Port voltage still reads 12V, s/b 13.2... but it's the starboard that appears to be in trouble!

Now - en route - we lose our domestic electrics. Except the fridge! No (domestic) water pump, no stereo, no depth/speed, no lights. But we still get to keep our fridge! Ok - turn the fridge off - nope - we don't get any of our electics back.

Dashboard still happily registering 12/13.2 port/s'board and all dashboard guages still happily working.

All 3 batteries are new within the last month. OK - everything was pointing to the s/bd battery - except that the domestic electrics run off the port, who's (dashboard) voltage never read more than 12V.

On return to harbour, we plug in to the shore power. Yep - the little light on the hoover that's plugged into a shore power plug is on. Kettle works etc. Fridge still works (off the domestic electrics remember!) Plugging and unplugging the shore power makes no difference to either dashboard voltage guage.

Summary - s'bd battery is a month old but can't start the engine even after being on shore power for a week, but reads 13.2V when the engine is running; port batteries - also a month old and green dots in the window tell me they're holding full charge - can start the engine happily, but can't deliver consistent domestic electrics and the voltage reads 12V when the engines are running...

Anyone got any idea what the hell is going on? Battery charger? Battery? Which one/two/three? Boat?!

All the best

Hany

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Obviously you are going to get far better replies than mine. However! I would seriously doubt the integrity of the battery. It may well be new... it could well be a faulty new one.

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Could be faulty battery(s),leads...all sorts really.

Easy enough with a volt meter-start at the batteries-see what voltage is there & keep going through the circuit until no/low voltage . If much lower after a lead,fuse,relay etc, then likely this is the cause.

When did the problems begin? has it been ok at all since the new batteries?

As Byron says, don't assume that a new battery is a good one.

Depending on alternator wiring, might be v.bad idea to start stbd engine by swopping battery leads & then swop back while engine running (I think that's what you said....),although if both alternators charge all the batteries, then is OK.





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Are you sure the new battery has sufficient cranking amps for your engine?

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

Now where is that Brendan hiding?
 
not enough info here to help, what size are batteries - amp hours?, why did you replace them was there a problem before.

The voltmeter on a good systems may drop to 8v on start up, rise rapdily to 10v when starter released after a few mins 11v and after 30 mins 12 v, and after 1 to 2 hours stabilise at an at rest volts about 12.7 volts during charging volts should be 13.7 to 14.2 volts but never really any higher.

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Could be just a duff battery we renewed the two on the Fairline recently, and had to take one back cos it would'nt hold charge

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.suncoastmarine.co.uk>Sun Coast Sea School & Charter</A>
 
Many many thanks for everything here! Looks like plan A will be to buy a voltage meter! I also suspected the s/b battery apart from the problem that it's the port batteries that provide the domestic electrics... I'm suspecting that there's some point in the system where the output of all three batteries meets and that may be the weak point... will have an investigate on all that you have suggested and report back!

All the best

Hany

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had a similar problem with a car some time back the problem proved to be the starter solenoid on the starter motor was faulty and kept dragging the battery down might be worth getting it checked

julian

<hr width=100% size=1>WHAT??? more petrol!!!
 
Couple of questions....there are a lot of more 'leccy people on the message board than me but I have played with my boat electrics long and hard...

Are you sure your fridge runs off the Port bank (if it's a big consumer the makers (or a previous owner) may have put it on the Starboard

Are your 2 port batteries connected to give 12v or are all your domestics coming off one battery only

Do you have a 'paralell' switch on your dash somewhere to start engines off your domestic bank if engine bank is discharged/faulty

How can the fridge run when all other services are off (refer Q1)

Are all the batteries the same size (amphours etc) or for example is the services one different

Do you have a generator on board

Do you have an inverter on board

How are the batteries charged



The dash could still be showing 12-13-14V for the sbd battery whilst under charge even though none of that charge is being retained by the battery cells



<hr width=100% size=1>mailto: stefan@athito.com
 
Re: OK - getting somewhere!

Well - I did promise to update when I had some info!

Took a multimeter to the system this afternoon - sbd battery was reading a full 6.2V. Sbd engine running - 13.6V happily at the terminals... run for 45mins or so - not enough juice to turn the engine over at all - let alone enough to start it. So yep - deep suspicion thereon!

Gonna replace it but in the meantime (and this gorgeous weather!) I've swapped them round so now the suspect one is one of the two that powers the port side.

On the mysterious disappearence of the domestic electrics - traced to a dodgy master switch - had come off it's mount - slightest movement at the helm station and it was vulnerable to cut! God it's great when u finally feel you're getting somewhere!

Stefan - what an interesting thought - I never considered that the fridge could potentially be run off the starboard - will have to take a look! That would put that happily into perspective given findings above...

2 port batteries are, indeed, connected - in series (so I did learn something in O'Level Physics!) I tink...

Don't have a parallel switch on the dash - have occasionally had to put a big spanner across the contacts of my cutout switches to run one bank of batteries into the other - mainly nicely charged (and protected!) sbd into the port bank after too long tied up without being on shore power... someting worries me about having to run serious core cable from the engine room all the way up to the dash and back... but a thought, here - put a switch into the cockpit close to the engine room so u don't have massive runs of cable...

All the batteries are 110AH

On-board eqpt - battery charger, separate 600W inverter - enough for the kettle and toaster together but not her hairdryer :-)
No genny... I like my boating evening's quiet!

My instinct is, now, to agree with the "dodgy battery" fraternity... so will let u know

BTW - Diesel at Teddington is 35p right now - till he gets his new delivery which, post Blair War, will be cheaper. Be grateful, folks, I just ran his 35p stock down by 500 litres! Charges 15 quid an hour for maintenance/repairs... no VAT either... hmmm :-)

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Re: OK - getting somewhere!

Um.....all sounds very peculiar....If 2 port batteries connected in series that means 24volts (12 plus 12)...r u sure not parallel (and your O level physics bit suspect/forums/images/icons/smile.gif).

Also DONT connect dodgy battery to good one...will pull good one down and maybe b*gg*r that too. Better leave it out all together and see if all ok with just one on each side. If you need to get new one and both port originals ok leave them that way and put new one on starbd side cos not good idea to put 2 different age batteries in parallel.

Good to know found master switch problem, sorts out some of mess.
Where are you and wheres diesel at Teddington? Im in Surrey and might be able meet up and do the 2 heads etc
Also, do you have original wiring diagram for boat?

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Re: OK - getting somewhere!

No, you don't run heavy battery cables up to the helm, you put in a relay operating a big solenoid right next to the batteries. The only trick is to make sure that the relay and solenoid are energised from the bank least likely to go flat, otherwise they're no use...

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Re: OK - getting somewhere!

Just a thought, i had a similar problem some years back.

Traced to dirty contacts on battery master switch putting high resistance in starter line.

you might want to check that battery connections and earth connections are clean as well

<hr width=100% size=1>Been there, done that, got the oily T shirt
 
If the batteries are the same, why not swap the "duff one" for one of the others and see if the problem goes with it? Save getting a new one if it doesn't.

My battery connected to the domestics always shows a volt less than the other, I assume its the draw of the fridge.

You should be able to see the effect of the charger on the voltmeter when you switch it off and on, so that can be be eliminated or (blamed) very easily

Geoff

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Re: OK - getting somewhere!

B1 - you're absolutely right - they are in parallel ! And I got an 'A' even tho my teacher's words were "well we all know that was a fluke"!

Too late now - have connected the dodgy one (in parallel!) but only for 36 hours - it's being swapped out tomorrow, Wednesday.

I'm at Teddington Harbour - just downstream of the lock outside The Wharf. Diesel's about half a mile downstream - difficult to find but if you come upstream from the Twickenham, past the school on your starboard, it's on "this" end of the first pontoon you get to on the starboard (Middlesex) bank. Not signposted - look for the pump. I was there last night around 7.30 - just gave him a call and he came out to relieve me of some of my hard-earned...

Wiring diagram? On an '86 Targa 33? hmmm.... is it worth a call to Fairline's?

Will explore putting a solenoid on, Graham - sound's like a plan...

Doubtless more to follow tomorrow!

Hany

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Re: OK - getting somewhere!

re wiring diagram definitely worth asking Fairline. Princess obliged with one for my 32 and thats 1974.
One thing Princess did which i prefer to your arrangment is both engines start by port battery and starb'd batteries all domestic. Diode circuit feeds both banks for charging whether single engine running or both.
Thanks for pm....yes, I'm in Chertsey. Let me know if you're coming upstream.
cheers
TonyR

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Re: OK - getting somewhere!

agree re. one bank for starting & one for domestics. Have been surprised how often mentioned that one bank does a double-duty.

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OK - approaching closure now!

Folks

Done:
Replaced the suspect battery
Replaced the iffy master switch

Newly discovered iffy:
Port alternator! Not delivering the goods! Will be replaced early next week. In the meantime - have a car jump lead running between the +ve of the s'bd battery and one of the ports... keeps them happily charging when not on shore power.

All in all - I think me electrics are happy. Well - till the next time anyway! :-)

Many many thanks for all your really helpful tips! Was a nightmare last weekend - gonna be a joy this one! If any of you Thames boaters fancy being around Hurst Park opposite the Hampton Bandstand on Saturday afternoon, Cinnamon will be entertaining us while we barbeque on the bank - our annual party. With perfect weather forecast - please feel entirely free to join us!

All the best

Hany

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Re: OK - approaching closure now!

Well...I know you were mobile cos you sailed past me at Hampton Court yesterday afternoon. You didnt have yer mobochat burgeee flying.....but I did AND I waved but you just carried on regardless........!

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