What sort of boat should I buy

PaulMcRae

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We are a husband and wife team in our 40s both semi retired and now living in Cyprus. We have owned motor cruisers for about 25 years but since our life is now totally different, we have decided to 'change loyalties' and buy a sailing boat. I have subscribed to Yachting Monthly buts its all about lazyjacks, slab-reefing, asymmetric spinnakers, tri radial roller geneoas, lewmars and all the 'yachty' stuff which may as well be greek to me and isnt all that helpful at this stage of my learning career!

We want a boat that we can handle ourself (we are both fit and active), with the ocassional couple of friends staying overnight for the odd weekend. We want to go long distances (something capable of getting from Cyprus to Spain every other year), not too interested in performance but the boat must be a reasonable standard of living, ie we want air con, central heating, satellite TV, cooker, washing machine, fridge/freezer etc so that implies decent generator etc and presumably a reasonably big boat like a 40-50 footer.

Cost isnt so much of an issue. What should I be looking for or is it a good idea to buy a little boat to 'learn on' first for a year. Whats your thoughts
 

mikewilkes

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May I suggest you look at a sailing school for a week or so. Then possibly look at a charter for a little while. After that you should have more of an idea what size boat you enjoy sailing.
40 to 50 ft is a fair size to start on.
At least where you are living you are going to get decent weather to sail in!!!
 

actionoptics

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I agree with Mike. We are planning long distance cruising but even after sailing with friends for a number of years, our first boat is only 24.5 feet. You learn an awful lot and don't break your self or anyone else if something goes wrong. We are now looking for something in the 38 to 40 ft range and should be able to handle it safely after the three years with the little one. We have both been to a sailing school and on flotilla holidays. Learn from other peoples experience for safety and peace of mind. It would be such a shame to get something too big too soon and scare your selves so that you give up. Have fun.
 

DaveNTL

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Welcome to the forum Paul.

Right - don't beat about the bush, do this.

Have a nice holiday in Cape Town and while you're there do the RYA day skipper theory and practical full time over a 10 day period with Ocean Sailing Academy. I'm not on commission, it's just what I did.

Then have a look at Nauticats. I'm not on commission, it's just what I bought.

They sail marginally worse than a 'normal yot' to windward - but as they say, gentlemen don't sail to windward anyway! BIG difference is, when the yachties are freezing their wotsits off you go down into the nice warm cabin and carry on sailing from there - or put your engine on, which is at least twice the size of an equivalent sized yacht, and motor away.

Then when you anchor or get to the marina, the freezing cold / roasting yachties come in and try to smile through gritted teeth. They then disapear down below while you sit in your floating conservatory with your G&T.

Liveaboarding is much better with comfort.

Forums are all about opinions. Thats mine.

Another tip as you're new Paul - if you ever decide to write anything here giving your opinions to someone - never go back to see what comes after! The two words 'abuse' and 'dogs' normally come to mind. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

PaulMcRae

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Thanks, that all seems to make logical sense to me. My local RYA sailing school here in Cyprus has a nice new Jeanneau that I'll book some lessons on for the pair of us and maybe they will let us hire it afterwards.

Is there a good book that I can start with so I can study and learn all the technical terms and theory before starting the practial side of things. What I want is something that clearly explains what say 'a self furling genoa' is and what you use it for and why they are good or bad etc. Obviously I have a reasonable knowledge of navigation, tide planning, plotters, engines, generators and that side of it.

What do you think is a good size target boat to aim for a husband and wife team to sensibly manage. I know with power boats its about 56 foot if you are well practised, fit and strong and on the ball, anything bigger than that and the view becomes too restricted from the flybridge to get the boat close enough for wives/girlfriends to throw a line easily around a bollard and the stern is too high/far away from the mooring bouy to get a line through without it all becoming 'controversial' With powerboats, the limiting factor is purely the mooring up bit (and the washing/polishing) but I assume with sailing boats the limiting factor of what is sensibly manageable is determined by all sorts of other criteria so the size of boat is a lot less. Plus I suppose there are 'other half' overboard safety issues etc
 

ChrisE

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Welcome to the forum. You are right about there being limiting factors on a sail boat and it is all about being able to control the sail plan in the kinds of conditions that you are expecting to sail in. There is a rule of thumb about being able to manually haul up the biggest sail that you likely to use and this has been augmented with the arrival of various bits of kit to manage the sails without having to haul directly.

I'd definitely go on the courses and get a feel for rag 'n stick. Then you'll be in better position to understand all of the advise that the yottie mags have.

Regarding other half overboard, I am firmly of the belief that the other half should be a competant enough to drop the sails, start the engine and issue a mayday. Anything less, is not fair on the you or the one you leave behind. If you have been mobo-ing as couple for 25 years your better half can probably do 2 out of those three already. Again, the course should give you a fair grounding in this kind of thing.

Regarding choice of boat the world is your oyster and probably not a bad choice of boat either, if money not a problem!
 

tcm

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Hm, ex-powerboater eh?

Rightyho, i'm powerboater and often look at sailing boats - and they are almost all godawful uncomfy and nasty, with hardly any comfy gear as on a powerboat. This is why sailors have a woman in every port - and none on the boat, cos most saily boats are totally crap, comfortwise

Even Oyster is a bit shabby with lots of owners used to cold and rain, seating worse than in a bus and beds just like at public school with bathroom shelves that look like i made them, and they're all ded proud about the poxy electrolux microwave. But oyster do have a nice social program in carib and majorca.

The exception to all this mediocrity is Nordia Van Dam, who make beautiful boats with woodworking skills that aren't really found in uk boatbuilding, fab kit with pushbutton everything and miele applicances etc etc , 60ish footer yours for about £2million ish.

The other alterntive would be a catamaran, cept for the med where mooring up will cost a fortune.

Oh, and bigger boats are loads easier to handle than smaller ones - all the harbour staff rush roudn to help, and untold qtys of crew will stay on board at the other end of the boat for almost nothing and clean things.
 
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Vonasi

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Re: Hm, ex-powerboater eh?

tcm - you seem to be missing the point about sailing.
Sailing is not about travelling around in a comfy hotel room, rushing between harbours because the getting there is so boring. Sailing is about moving slow enough to contemplate how big and wonderful nature is. It's about efficiently harnessing the elements in balance. It's about the getting there, not the being there. The cold and wet can only make you appreciate the warm and dry more.
 

tcm

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ah but

I assume your post was tongue in cheek. Mine was - but only a bit, though. I am well aware of the joy of sailing, although i must say i haven't ever heard that the real advantage is that it's really slow, as you seem to indicate. But lets's continue as tho both in same lighhearted vein....

I see your point - 'cept this is the liveaboard forum innit! So, chances are people spend a whole load more time on board with sails down rather than up, anchor chain out rather than in the locker, and so on.

But only sailing boatbuilders -and even their customers- have been able to push this notion about the neccessity for sailing to be somewhat less than pleasant to be worthwhile or "close to nature". Manufactuers who make things or provide services for other pastimes such as fellwalking, caravanning, GA (flying aeroplanes) cycling, car rallies, don't manage to get away with "being at one with nature" as an excuse for the generally low standad of insulation, heating, convenience, comfort and (i think) have a better record of swmbo's enjoying coming along. I mean, anyone involved in one of those activities would not be invitd to buy a caravan or stay overnight in something that (as standard) had no hot water and no shower. But it seems fine with lots of sailing boats made for med climes and somehow sold here to the same spec, and the same seems to go for marinas so we have a situation wheere quite so-so marinas are seen as "fabulously equipped". Perhaps our extremely low general standard of housebuilding/facilites and generally poor hotel accomodation is partly to blame for the uk's acceptance of the general situation.

Back to the thread - surely you aren't saying that given a (here) unlimited budget you'd pprefer a less comfortable boat. Or maybe you are?
 

davidbains

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A catamaran with a bridgedeck cabin. Very stable and less tiring to sail.
Two engines for manouvre ability and reliability. Good vis from bridgedeck
and privacy in the hulls.
 

snowleopard

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there are 3 possible replies to this question.

a) 'one like mine'. you've had a few of those so i won't bother to tell you why my boat is the only possible choice.

b) none, till you've tried a few and decided what best suits you.

c) anything. you'll want to change after a year or two once you know what you like.
 

PaulMcRae

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Thanks for all this feedback. I think we'll both read up well, go on a few courses and then buy a nice secondhand 42-49 footer, find somebody experienced 'on type' who can spend a week or two honing our basic skills and then spend a year or two cruising the Greek Islands, Turkey etc, that way if I buy the wrong boat I wont have blown a huge amount of dosh.

I assume that sailing will be a bit like motorboating where youll moor and mix with all the like sized boats, get invited onboard etc and have a chance to get involved in long boaty discussions and then start to appreciate all the different types.

I must admit there is no logic to the costs of sailing boats, if you take a typical 50 foot Sunseeker, it costs about 500k but then the engines etc are about 150k each with about 50k of brought in support gear so you get quite a lot of fibreglass/american cherry for your remaining 150k. With a sail boat you can buy new for sub 200k (which I would expect because I imagine that 50k would probably buy you the sails and rigging etc) but Oysters etc are 650k for essentially the same but better so wheres the extra 450k being spent.
 

tcm

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oyster prices

a good question. ASlthough the gear is betterit's not THAT much better, and certainly not as good as some. From a fleeting close acquanitance with the company, laods of stuff is subcontracted so there's lots of company directors and their cars to be paid for. Plus of course, as you say, if a sunseeker costs £££ then the same sort of size O is praps worth the same. Cept last time i looked oysters are even more fippin expensive than same LOA sunseeker. Perhaps this explained by higher number and cost of 5-bed "executive"detached houses around there, dunno...
 

ChrisE

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Oyster prices

I'm sure that tcm has half the answer and I'd add that they are handcrafted rather than factory built. I'm not saying that h/c is necessaily better than f/b but it costs more, especially as owners can ask for the spec that they want. Now we're into serious amounts of people time and cost.

I'm not convinced though, that some smartypants, like tcm for instance, couldn't produce a better quality product at a consierably lower price by doing the fitting out in China or some other low cost neck of the woods.
 
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Vonasi

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Re: ah but

Sorry for the delay in replying tcm.
Yes I am saying that I prefer to travel slowly. Give me sitting in the cockpit travelling at 6 knots reading a book with a cup of tea while keeping a lookout anyday over hammering along at 20knots being bounced and hammered to pieces (spending a fortune for the privelege)! Sailing boats (well at least the sort that mere mortals can afford to buy) are basic because they are designed for weekend use and not living aboard. You have to take the basics and add the comforts - unfortunately the limits are the fact that a sail boat has to be a certain shape to sail well - which limits things. Power boats can look like big inflated blobs with room inside to match because the bit above the waters shape does not matter one iota (except windage) for moving through the water. Also adding comforts on sail boats adds weight and weight is not good for sailing, and as it is a sailing boat this has priority.
Living on a sail boat is a lifestyle and hence you have to make compromises to achieve that lifestyle. Living in a powerboat is just about moving your house closer to the water!
 
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