what size for cruising

[andy_greaves]

After saving for 20 years my wife and I are ready to go on our "trip of a life time".
we haveset our hearts on a Nauticat 44 Motorsailer to live aboard and spend a couple of years cruising around the Med, then across the Atlantic to the West Indies,and up the east coast of the US to Canada, then finally home to Britain.
Over the last couple of year and many conversations we have heard a lot of comments that cruising in a 44 foot boat may cause us problems due to rules, regulations and taxes levied on a boat of this size in some countrys. Could anybody who really knows the true facts please let us know as we do not want to start our journey on the wrong foot. also any info about berthing problems would be gratefully recieved.

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[MedMan]

My wife and I have been in the Med for 6 years aboard our Voyager 35. We have never heard of any specific problems that would cut in at 44ft other than those caused by size, weight and expense. Marinas in the Med tend to charge according to either just length or some formula involving both length and beam. A few charge on beam alone. Those that charge according to length (the majority) are usually banded e.g. Below 8m, 8-10m, 10-12m etc. Charges often go up disproportionally over 12m.

Taking this alongside the added difficulties of handling a larger boat with only two on board I would seriously suggest you consider restricting your boat length to 11.9 metres. This gives more than enough space for two plus guests and ample room for stowage.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.yachtretreat.com>http://www.yachtretreat.com</A>

 

[ChrisE]

I'd endorse Medman's views about size relative to number of crew. We lived aboard our Rival 38 for a year and came to the conclusion that it was at about the limit of what a crew of two could handle in all conditions. Friends of ours have a 43 which they sail as a couple but the wife is very nervous owing to several incidents when mooring in high winds when she has been hurt or injured by the process.

Geoff Pack's 'Bluewater Cruising' has a very good section about this. Even the Hiscocks came to the view that 35-38 ft represented the best compromise of storage, handling and safety.

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[tcm]

We have biggish boat in med and and have rented smaller 45 footer in the caribbean and i know of no problems of the type you describe. There does seem to be a faction of boaters who view larger boats with trepidation, but i would say that your plan seems fine - 44 feet is at the lower end of what many (incl me) would say will be a comfortable liveaboard size handlable by two people

In all marina there are stepped price bands - in the med with tighter stern-to mooring these are usually concerend with the beam, not the length, hence you will hardly see any catamarans - far more expensive. But nonetheless, there are no "aha! - over 40 feet are we?" restrictions or special rules. For british flagged boats there is a step at 24metres - beyond this length for commercial use one needs more than a commercial yachtmaster qualification.

There are taxes applied to boats in foreign countries, notably in France. But this applies to french-flagged boats - not british-flagged boats.

There is big pressure on med berths in the summer, despite the fact that the prices rise to fairly exciting levels: portals nous in Majorca charges over £230 per night in august for a 25metre x 6metres wide berth, and st tropez charges £300 in the vieux port. But right outside these places (i mean, within 100 yards of the marina entrance even) are lovely anchorages, and so you can anchor (and it's nicer) free of charge, the wind drops at 7pm sharp, and only go in at lunchtimes, when it's free, perhaps get a little bit of fuel and top up the water tanks. The prices in these same places drops to nearer £50 per night in October - when an anchorage in higher winds is much less tenable. Expect almost half these figures for a 44 footer, and much less in less popular places. I heard somehwere that ampuriabrava in spain was charging 3euro a night in winter for a 40-50 foot boat. In summer, in popular places (balearix, french riviera) if you really do want a berth in a marina, phone ahead, perhaps a week or more if u know where you want to be.

The "milk run" across the atlantic is to start from canary islands late november arrriving caribbean around christmas. The worst of the weather seems to happen on the way to tenerife in sept-nov either in the med or in Biscay - arriving in tenerife by end of august seeems a better plan.

Boatwise, of course you need a vessel with sizeable tanks - not always featured on the nauticat with some being small - others larger. Teak decks are NOT something you want, except that it is nice underfoot in the cockpit - elswhere the stuuf has high heat capacity and below decks will boil in hot weather.

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[charles_reed]

I\'d agree

You'll probably best off with just under 12m.

Above this the number of available berths drops significantly and the costs rise disproportionally in the Western Med.

I'd concentrate on ground-tackle - anchoring is usually necessary when marinas are full and the weather is hot, apart from saving cost it's usually more hassle-free than trying to wriggle into a marina.

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[Mr Cassandra]

hi we have a 44ft yacht, my 12 year old daughter and I have no trouble parking her up when the wife gets the drinks ready. Also remember the boat will feel a lot smaller after you get used to things. cheers bob t

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[smee]

I have a 41ft boat and in no way endorse the opinion that 38ft or less is best.
My boat is ketch rig and easily handled by two as the main mast is barely bigger than that of a 30fter. In fact it is a similar boat to a Nauticat, just steel instead!

Also if I can ever have my way (moneywise!) I'd happily move up to a 60fter for two to cruise bluewater in. That is the size at which 2 handed becomes difficult, with modern labour saving devices, or so I am told by ex professional crew! And as the majority of liveaboards I know are couples that live on bigger boats than mine I am sure they are not wrong!

If the marina I moor in is anything to go by (Med Spain), anything up to 13M is very difficult to find space for but go 13M or more and there is plenty of space left. Also I enquired on the Camargue Med coast in France and they say anything up to 13M has a waiting list of 5 years or more. Either go bigger than 12M or go much smaller if you want to find a berth for it.

As for the Hiscocks and people from that era, they were before self tailing winches, and electric anchor winches, so are hardly anything to go by in these MODERN times, where there are furling headsails, pack a mains, in mast reefing, and all manner of equipment to ease the strain!

If the Nauticat 44 feels like your dream boat, go for it. Much of how you handle it and moor up etc is all down to getting a good routine together.

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[ccscott49]

I have a 57 footmotorsailer, she is heavy 48 tonns, but two of us have no problem handling her. I think a 44 nauticat would be ideal, a 46 fisher even more ideal!! I agree with everyuthing TCM says on this, I've seen his boat and he's seen mine.

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[qsiv]

We're in between at 51 feet and 28 tonnes. With modern sail handling the boat is easy to manage, even singlehanded - but the issues are likely to arise when things go wrong. I know I'm the only one aboard who could hoist the main without the telectric winches, and I doudt the ability of the less strong to sheet home the jib in a blow. The weight comes on mooring lines pretty heavily, so good line handling is at a premium in fresher conditions. In truth she would be big for a couple, unless both are of fairly equal strength and ability. If all that is anticipated is port hopping, and maybe takeing an extra hand or two for the crossing, then all would be fine.

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[ccscott49]

Englander, does have fairly small sails for her size and is a motor sailer, so if things are expected to be a bit heavy, we tend to go for jib and jigger (foresail and mizzen) then motor thats if we are short handed, for longer passages, we just get friends down for a few days, theres always somebody available and I'm never in a hurry, can always wait for a few days until somebody is available. Mooringismore difficult, thats why I have an anchor and can wait for better mooring conditions,(tend to anchor mostly anyway) or use our powerful inflatable as a docking tug, push there please!!

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[heerenleed]

The bigger the better

When we started t look for a boat suitable to live on, every liveaboard we knew said: buy as big as you can afford and as you can handle.

At first I thought our Nic 48 was huge, but now I know better. Important is the rig: fractional rigs are easier to handle, as the individual size of every sail is relatively small.

I think a 44 ft Nauticat is fine for living space and fine for handling as well, and, as others have stated: build up your personal routine and you'll be fine.

If you feel this is the boat for you, then it is....

happy sailing and fair winds

<hr width=100% size=1>Peter a/b SV Heerenleed, Steenbergen, Netherlands

 

[BrendanChandler]

I agree also

We spent a year doing an Atlantic circuit in our 38ft Beneteau Idylle and think that she is about ideal size. We are now preparing her for a long cruise.
We took one soft bag of clothes each and brough most back unworn.
Advise: leave almost all clothes at home, take a few books and taped books for long night watches and go.
It is all much easier than you think so just go.

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[charles_reed]

The Larger the Better

However, you'll find there is a "glass ceiling" in the Med at about 12/13m, at which point it gets much more expensive and there are relatively fewer berths available.

If, however, you only intend to visit marinas occasionally, have adequate ground tackle, a good tender and plenty of tankage and battery; it really comes down to how much capital you intend to invest in the boat.

As far as rules and regulations I know of none - except the requirement (rigourously enforced) in France which demands francisation after 6 months continuous in their waters if your boat is your main address/habitation. There are a number of uncomfortable intimations that the autonomous provinces in Spain are starting to levy local taxes on foriegn visitors to their shores.

I'd suggest, if you don't already belong, joining the Cruising Association - you'll get far more accurate answers from their globally spread membership.

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[andy_greaves]

After reading all your replies I have come to the conclusion that owners of smaller boats ( 38ft and under ), say that I should stick under 38ft, and owners of larger boats (38ft and above ), say I should buy over 38ft and that the Nauticat 44 will be fine. I wonder if any of the owners of boats under 38ft have ever lived on a larger boat and have experienced any problems, as it seems that the owners of boats 40-60ft have not.
Apart from that I am very grateful to everyone for your comments, and I am pleased that no one has heard of any rules and regs that could upset our plans.
As we intend to spend most of our time at anchor and only visit marinas when necessary, we see no reason not to stick to our plan of a Nauticat 44. We have three grown up sons and alot of other family and frends who we hope will be regular visitors, so we think we need the space.
ccscot. we are going for the Nautictat over the Fisher for the sailing ability, we hear the Fisher 46 dosn't sail at all.
We had a reply from some one who is also going for a Nauticat 44 .Your e mail has vanished from my lap top along with your address. Please send again.

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[ccscott49]

Actually other way round, the fisher sails very well, the nauticat is more motor than sailer. I have a motor sailer, and in the med thats what you need anyway, theres either not enough weind, too much wind or its in the wrong direction. Plus very sloppy seas! Also the fisher 46 was custom built and quite a few had a tall rig fitted with some even having bowsprits, which made them really sail. The one other problem, you are unlikely to find a fisher for sale, they are rare and people hang on to them, I know I\ve been looking!


<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by ccscott49 on 07/12/2003 10:50 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Sinbad1]

It is going to come down to experience and competence. The smaller the boat the easier it is to pull around with your bits of string. A bigger, heavier boat can't be pulled around. It has to be 'handled' whether under power or old fashioned warping.

The Nauticat 44 is an older design, pre Sparkman and Stephens designs for Nauticat and as such she isn't a great sailer. She carries a lot of windage and to moor you will need to be comfortable with her, ie, know what she will do in every situation. This can only be aquired from experience.

There were only 14 Fisher 46's built and all except one was custom made. Each one is different. They sail magnificently and the build quality is considerably superior to the Nauticat. (Pull some panels off the nauticat and have a look beneath the gloss) You need to be very familiar with prop walk and its idiosynchrosies. You can not 'pull' these boats into position. They are just too heavy at 28 tonnes.

However........you are going to spend a lot of time at anchor/moored and you want a boat that is going to be easy to live on. Get the biggest boat you can. You will be surprised how the little boats get out of the way when they see you coming and an added bonus is that everyone will want to help you tie up, cos if they don't you may just sink them!

You will also do a lot of engine hours. Get a boat with a large slow revving engine. It won't wear out and the drone of high revs won't drive you mad. Make sure you have a serious bowthruster. Then you can back into any position using the thruster to steer the 'front'.

....and the last piece of advice...just go and do it. You can learn on the way.

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[ChrisE]

I'd endorse what Sinbad says, go for it and learn en route.

Regarding experience of different sizes of boat. Having manoeuvred and lived aboard my 38 footer and other people's larger boats I'm very happy to keep with the size I have, for the reasons I outlined above. That said, if you have your sons as crew then all will be fine and motorsailer has smaller sails in comparison to a pure raggy so your sailing loads won't be such a problem.

Best of luck, I hope that you acheive your dream.

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