What should I look for in a sheet winch?

Otter

Otter

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Our HT27 has a perfectly serviceable Lewmar size 16 sheet winch (the HT uses a single aft cabin-top mounted winch for the genoa sheets). But it struggles in fresh winds with the large genoa we have - really hard work in F5 and above. I looked on the Lewmar site and they recommended a size 30 for our boat - so here are the questions:

1. how much additional mechanical benefit is the 30 verses the 16?
2. the two speed model is massively more expensive than the single speed - do I need two speed?
3. the black anodised one looks nice - but will it wear as well as the chrome? Can it be re blacked?
4. a brand new size 30 self tailing Antal winch can be had for £225 - are they a 'sound' make? darn sigt cheaper than Lewmar.

Thanks for your help.
 
AS a first step, would another winch handle, say 3 inches longer, be a useful cheaper try ? More leverage.
 
1. The size of a winch is the power gain ratio. That is with the 30 you will need 16/30 less effort for the same force applied to the sheet (about half that is).
2. If you don't mind having to turn twice as many turns for the same length, don't bother with the twin speed. In my case (Lewmar 40) when the second gear is not needed, the winch is not needed at all. I don't know if there are any 30's single speed though...
 
[ QUOTE ]
Our HT27 has a perfectly serviceable Lewmar size 16 sheet winch .... I looked on the Lewmar site and they recommended a size 30 for our boat -
1. how much additional mechanical benefit is the 30 verses the 16?
2. the two speed model is massively more expensive than the single speed - do I need two speed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Q1. has been answered. The only way to increase power-ratio on a single-speed winch is to use a longer handle.
Q2: Two-speed winches are more expensive because they have to use internal gearing to achieve the higher power-ratio: Laws of physics!
If you want long life and reliability, go for Lewmar, but look for second-hand: there have been good buys available as people upgrade to self-tailers.
If you plan to sell the boat in a year or two, or not sail for much longer, go for Antal.
 
1. the number refers to the mechanical advantage (gear ratio/leverage call it what you will) but basically 16 means that the rope moves 1/16th of the distance of your hand and your pull is multiplied 16x (1kg pull on your hand gives 16kg pull on the rope).
30:1 more powerful
2. 2 speed is great. 1st speed pulls in the line quite quickly. As soon as the strain gets too much for you, you change direction and and tighten in the sheet/halyard with less effort. Less effort = easier to tweak/tune. the easier it is to use, the more it will get used. Kids, older folk, ladies..... makes it easier for them to help and contribute if they can easily use the equipment.
Be careful that the deck/mounting is strong enough to take the increased load that you will generate when you have the higher ration winch
3. Black anodised will last as long as chromed finish in "normal" use. Not sure about re anodising.
4. Antal/Harken/Lewmar etc. all very good and well made. Realistically, only in a hard worked charter or race boat will you see and longevity difference. You will ruin the winch more quickly by not cleaning and lubricating the bearings and pawls on the inside of it, not by over use.

You missed an important factor: Self tailing
Don't buy a "standard" winch, get a self tailer. There is a reason why so many folks are changing their standard ones.

Price wise, phone Heron Yacht services +44 1206 303695
51 Samson's Road
Brightlingsea
Essex
CO7 0RL

I got two chromed Lewmar 30 ST in October from him. less than £300 per winch including shipping to Belfast. Lewmar quality and reliability at (almost) Antal prices. I wouldn't turn up my nose at Antal, its just that all my other winches are Lewmar.
Reason for my change was that the wally who fitted the winch onto the mast, didn't isolate the bronze base from the aluminium mounting fatal corrosion of the winch base. Use Duralac for all bolts and dissimilar metal to metal contacts and isolate the base using plastic as well, if on the mast.
 
Yes the trap is that if you are buying a direct drive winch then the larger winch has a bigger drum which is good for handling more load but unless you get a longer handle the larger drum gives less power of pull.
So your choices are a longer handle with existing winch or a geared winch (very expensive) olewill
 
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Any specifics on the problems with Antal?

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I have no direct experience of Antal, but have come across some less-than-satisfied users of alloy Antals.
However, that may be outdated and irrelevant, since I see they now offer bronze and Lewmar now offer alloy!
I have 35-year-old chromed bronze Lewmars, re-chromed 20 years ago and still going strong after close to 100K miles sailing. If I had to replace, and could still look forward to a lot of sailing, I would chose the same again.
 
Errrm, in answer to the original question...

Probably some pawls, springs, gears, mucky old grease, etc..?

;-)
 
I fitted a pair of alluminium Antel 40 st's to my 28 footer 3 years ago to replace a pair of lewmar 40 standards. They make hauling in the 150% genoa easy for the smaller members of the crew. I have not noticed any undue wear when I've pulled them apart for servicing. Sure the Lewmar chromes are a better product but that is reflected in the price.
 
I'm changing the Lewmar 30s on my Varne 27 for self tailers, when the weather lets me get near her for long enough! I enquired from Lewmar about the hole spacing differences. The standard winch has five equispaced holes on 113mm PCD. The self tailer has five holes in a symetrical pattern on a 114mm PCD, so there's some redrilling to do. The winches I'm taking off have been great and still look pretty good. I'm changing them because I've had a frozen shoulder this year and tailing the sheet became difficult for me.
If you decide to go the Lewmar self tailing route, there's a guy who advertises in the PBO classifieds. I believe his last price on a 30CST was around £300.
 
When I proposed buying new halyard winches a few years ago I looked quite closely at Antal. The winches appeared to be manufactured well enough and other users seemed to have no specific problems. However, when I looked at the data on them I found that there were quite significant differences in values for comparable winches from other manufacturers. I don't remember exactly what these were at this late stage but advise you to examine all the power ratios, gear ratios etc for the size you are interested in.
 
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