What shapes should I show

[Ranyart]

Croosing recently from Arran to Troon we decided that it would be nice to have lunch at the table together rather than in shifts, so I hove to to stop the boat. After having a good look around (nothing in site) we both went below, looking out from the saloon regularly. As this is the 1st time we have done this we were pretty pleased with ourselves, the boat bobbing up and down but laying flat in the F2-3 winds.
Later we got to thinking if we should have hoisted any shapes to indicate what we were doing.
Were we not under command? I don't think so as the boat was doing exactly as I had commanded it to and could be brought back to sailing in less than a minute.
I'd be interested to hear what you all think.

 

[ancientsailor]

It's my belief that you were a conventional sailing vessel under way.

As you indicate, you were quite capable of manoeuvring.

No special shapes or exemption - and all the obligations for collision avoidance still apply ...

which is why it's often a good idea to heave to on the starboard tack

 

[powerskipper]

intresting

Croosing recently from Arran to Troon we decided that it would be nice to have lunch at the table together rather than in shifts, so I hove to to stop the boat. After having a good look around (nothing in site) we both went below, looking out from the saloon regularly. As this is the 1st time we have done this we were pretty pleased with ourselves, the boat bobbing up and down but laying flat in the F2-3 winds.
Later we got to thinking if we should have hoisted any shapes to indicate what we were doing.
Were we not under command? I don't think so as the boat was doing exactly as I had commanded it to and could be brought back to sailing in less than a minute.
I'd be interested to hear what you all think.

Not under command is due to a mechanical failure.

 

[kunyang]

Just make sure your on a starboard tack and it makes it a bit simpler

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

sea cat

and watch out for the sea cat creeping up behind you - can't believe how fast it goes

 

[nimbusgb]

What shapes should you know?

All of them!

 

[pagoda]

Croosing recently from Arran to Troon we decided that it would be nice to have lunch at the table together rather than in shifts, so I hove to to stop the boat. After having a good look around (nothing in site) we both went below, looking out from the saloon regularly. As this is the 1st time we have done this we were pretty pleased with ourselves, the boat bobbing up and down but laying flat in the F2-3 winds.
Later we got to thinking if we should have hoisted any shapes to indicate what we were doing.
Were we not under command? I don't think so as the boat was doing exactly as I had commanded it to and could be brought back to sailing in less than a minute.
I'd be interested to hear what you all think.

fair enough..
was it raining or something nasty?
Personally I wouldn't dream of being below unless it was actually necessary. I have to admit to feeling guilty when single handing our yacht..if I nip below to put the kettle on and leg it back to the helm..
Were it bucketing down - vis would be poor and it would not be comfortable without radar on - or similar, I might consider it.
By an large, sailing is an out door activity - unless moored somewhere -or having enough crew on board that somebody is on watch.
Commercial big stuff these days moves pretty fast- I'd rather not have any surprises - and put up with weather on deck - regardless.
I think it's academic ...most people would not be comfortable "inside" ? under way..

Graeme

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Not under command is due to a mechanical failure.

...... or a becalmed sailing vessel.

 

[Genoa]

...... or a becalmed sailing vessel.

Or err ...
A vessel not under command?

Why all the fuss about the SeaCat - you are a sailing vessel underway, she is a manouvreable mobo being conned by a pro who understand collregs.
Where we are, I'd be more concerned by a lobster pot.

 

[Little Rascal]

Aye, as long as he's seen you...

 

[fireball]

Don't be daft. Lobster Pots can't see!! Anyway, even if they could see you what are the supposed to do about it? Get all the lobsters to jump up and down to shift the pot out of your way??

 

[Little Rascal]

Obviously never seen a clyde lobster then...

 

[Ranyart]

Hi Pagoda
Visibility was very good, no rain, clear blue sky, just a few dark clouds over Arran. Not really academic as we have done this and will probably do it again if the circumstances are right. It wasn't necesary to go below, just nice!
Glad to hear your thoughts though!

 

[Little Rascal]

Hi raynart,

Standard sailing rules apply - theoretically if you are outside TSS zones or shipping channels you would have right of way over motor vessels (and sailing vessels if you're hove to on starboard) plus it's unlikely you'd be overtaking anything.

Not Under Command can only be declared in "exceptional circumstances." (Various other threads have done been on what this means) but examples would be things like steering gear failure or engines jammed full ahead. As you said you still had command in spite of not being on deck.

However the Colregs require that you "maintain a proper lookout" by sight and hearing. Obviously that is going to be difficult to comply with in some circumstances, especially singlehanded - one reason why the RYA don't officially recognise events like the Vendee Globe.

The responsibility remains yours however and if an incident was to occur it'd likely be deemed your fault.

How you choose to keep a look out is your business though and in my opinion depends on the circumstances. To do what you did in a TSS zone or crowded waters would obviously be foolhardy but in good weather and out of shipping areas I might be tempted to do the same, provided I could pop my head out the hatch every couple of minutes.

If you think about it though, if visibility if 3 miles and the coast is clear, a vessel travelling at 30 knots could be alongside you in 6 minutes!

 

[Piers]

I believe you were 'Not under Command' since you were "a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel".

The exceptional circumstances were that you were having lunch....

If so, the shapes to display would be two balls, one of top of the other.

 

[Sybarite]

I think you answered your own question. There was nothing in sight. Therefore irrelevant to hoist anything. It's like indicating in a car when there are no cars to see it.

 

[Dockhead]

Hi raynart,

Standard sailing rules apply - theoretically if you are outside TSS zones or shipping channels you would have right of way over motor vessels (and sailing vessels if you're hove to on starboard) plus it's unlikely you'd be overtaking anything.

I find all this problematical.

First of all, you do not have any "right of way" with respect to mobos or sailing vessels on port tack. You are the "stand on vessel", which is different. It means the other guy is supposd to initiate avoiding maneuvers before you, but if he doesn't or can't or they are not adequate to avoid a collision, you are obligated to maneuver. If there is a crash which could have been avoided if you had kept a proper watch and had you maneuvered you will be guilty.

Besides that, you are not the standon vessel with respect to other sailing vessel on starboard tack who are downwind of you.

If you decide to go below and concentrate on your lunch while hove to, go right ahead. In good weather far from shipping lanes and with nothing in sight maybe it's not totally reckless. But you certainly do so in violation of good seamanship and at your own peril.