What parts of ME do I need to measure, before ordering a trapeze harness?

[dancrane]

I know that the weight of my wallet may be the most significant measurement, but beyond that, I'm not sure what gets gauged.

I haven't located a store or chain of retailers anywhere, where different sizes and styles can be tried to help make a decision.

Apologies if I asked last month (and possibly in May, and before that, as well as last year).

I know owners of made-to-measure harnesses swear by them, and I'll eventually be glad not to have gone cheap if I spend the extra £60 for "bespoke".

I suppose that means there's no hope of SWMBO fitting in mine, with the straps & buckles tightened up?

 

[Alfie168]

Make sure you both wear your own properly fitted harnesses. I have a friend who has permanent serious back damage that has frankly ruined her life. She had forgotten to take her trapeze harness to the Contender Europeans quite some years back now. She borrowed an ill fitting one from someone and the consequences have been catastrophic for her. She sailed with a twisted spine to accommodate the loose fitting harness, and did something dreadful to her back. She is unable to work and has constant pain and an unflattering weight gain from her inability to exercise properly.

She's knackered basically, so take care.

Tim

 

[Twister_Ken]

Is your Ozzy twin wire? If not it's the crew who wears the nappy.

 

[Lakesailor]

I get the feeling Dan is either not listening (in which case, why does he keep asking questions?) or he is winding us up.

 

[dancrane]

Definitely I'm listening Lakey, I'm just not terribly bright. And I'm very forgetful. Please be patient.

I have a friend who... ...sailed with a twisted spine to accommodate the loose fitting harness, and did something dreadful to her back.

Jeepers. Thanks for the warning. I wonder how anyone can buy anything except made-to-measure? I mean, in the scheme of sailing expenses, £150 for a made-to-measure harness really isn't a lot more than the less well-fitting variety.

Is there any particularly recommended fitter, to go to? Central London and Hampshire would be within reach.

Also...I'm scarcely a whale, but I reckon I ought to lose a stone. If I succeed, is the harness going to need some re-stitching to fit snugly?

Is your Ozzy twin wire? If not it's the crew who wears the nappy.

Single wire...at the moment...and (can you believe it?)...I'm not going to attempt a wacky modification. Although, you have got me thinking about it...

...but anyway, I want a harness because I want to understand the crewing tasks too, and this may not be the only boat I ever sail.

SWMBO will probably dive in and shell out on her own harness, if she sees that it's fun, and advantageous.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Have you worked out how to drive the thing while hanging on a wire?

 

[dancrane]

Have you worked out how to drive the thing while hanging on a wire?

I was thinking SWMBO might like to switch places occasionally...and it has been suggested that I let her steer while I take care of the ropes...

...although, it can be singlehanded, in light airs:

 

[armchairsailor]

Forget about it until you can handle the boat confidently. Trapezes are for stronger winds - not for learning to handle the boat and potter. As I've said before - stop overcomplicating things. Why would you want to run before you can walk? Jeeze Dan, stop obsessing!

 

[dancrane]

Sorry I asked! It didn't seem obsessive to enquire about what is fairly basic kit on a design which was crewed by three, until the trapeze made lighter crews possible.

 

[armchairsailor]

Sorry Dan, I'm just concerned for your marriage, that's all.

 

[dancrane]

 

[grumpy_o_g]

A trapeze harness is basically a nappy with a string on the front. If you're light and fit then there is not so much strain on the body but if you're older, weaker and heavier then go especially careful - I went out on a trapeze for the first time in 38 years a year or so ago and it was bloody hard work and you really notice if the harness doesn't fit right. It's the fitting of the harness that's critical, probably far more so than choosing which one to buy. The good thing is you usually tell if it's not right. It should support you in such a way that your weight is taken evenly across the body as much as much as possible but still leave the legs "weighing" enough to allow you to drop easily in and out of the dinghy. You should also be held securely up and down (i.e. between the shoulders and the crotch) but able to stretch out without any restrictions. Don't forgot the wire either - it needs to be the right length (you should be almost horizontal when the boat's upright) and make sure the wire and the shrouds aren't frayed as these will cut you to ribbons if they are. It's also a sign that they're losing strength of course. Make sure the bungee cord that stops the trapeze wire flapping around still allows full extension for even a tall person and make sure the handle's comfortable and at the right height - once you're used to going in and out you don't put so much weight on it but it's still essential for those awkward "should I be out or not" stretches. Lastly, if your Osprey has beautifully varnished and shiny (and slippery) side decks then smack the owner around the head until he puts some non-slip where you go in and out.

Don't even think about helming and trapezing at the same time until you are VERY comfortable helming the boat. For the crew though a well set up trapeze can be far less tiring and much more fun than sitting out and you can shift your weight inboard or out very quickly. If you or the missus haven't used one before then you definitely should try it but get someone who knows what they're doing to helm when you try it for the first few times.

 

[dancrane]

Wow, thanks Grumpy! That answers everything I wondered about and lots more on top.

As you say, easier for the crew to trapeze than hike hard - and as the Osprey's crew is expected to trapeze, I guess that's why my boat only has toestraps for the helm.

I daresay those ProGrip strips for the gunwales are ideal non-slip.

 

[Iain C]

Somewhere to buy...Pinnell & Bax. Northampton based but just opened in Fareham too. Large range, and made to measure too. After years of cursing strappy harnesses that's what I used for a long time now. Measurement instructions will be on www.pinbax.com

Don't even think about trying to trapeze or sending SWMBO out on the wire until you are a competent driver, someone who knows what they are doing has taught her (obviously this all works vice versa too), you have changed the wires for D12 and bought her a knife, and you have covered the gunwales in progrip. Or Lunasoft SL, available from Algeos.com, it's used in the orthopaedics industry and is the same stuff, without the marine price tag.

Also wondering if this is a slight wind up now...

 

[TangaraToo]

Somewhere to buy...Pinnell & Bax. Northampton based but just opened in Fareham too. Large range, and made to measure too. After years of cursing strappy harnesses that's what I used for a long time now. Measurement instructions will be on www.pinbax.com

+1 for P&B made to measure. My son has one for two reason, 1) safety side as only 1 buckle and quick release hook, 2) comfort of fit.

 

[Twister_Ken]

OK Dan, it'll be another new experience to look forward to - being swung around the forestay on the trap as the missus - who is driving - smacks the boat into a square wave and stops it. You'll then end up looking at the leeward side of the sails as the lugger capsizes on top of you.

 

[DJE]

If it's a cruising dinghy sort out a reef in the main first!

 

[scruff]

OK Dan, it'll be another new experience to look forward to - being swung around the forestay on the trap as the missus - who is driving - smacks the boat into a square wave and stops it. You'll then end yourself looking at the leeward side of the sails as the lugger capsizes on top of you.

....and soon to be underwater whilst panicking as you realise you are still attached to the trapeze and you are now entangled in your lazy jacks.

Are you being serious?

Only two(?) days ago you were bumping your gums as you were unable to confidently sail and handle the boat in a F2 and now you want to trapeze.

I take my hat off to you, you sure are a A* wind up merchant.

 

[dancrane]

If it's a cruising dinghy sort out a reef in the main first!

Thanks DJE, I'm looking at the older main, wondering just how deep a reef to take.

Somewhere to buy...Pinnell & Bax...just opened in Fareham... Large range, and made to measure too. Measurement instructions will be on www.pinbax.com

...(change) the wires for D12 and (buy) a knife, and (cover) the gunwales in progrip. Or Lunasoft SL, available from Algeos.com, it's used in the orthopaedics industry and is the same stuff, without the marine price tag.

Thanks Iain, that's exactly the info I was requesting. Sorry if it didn't look like a serious thread. Great picture, by the way!

Are you being serious?

Only two(?) days ago...you were unable to confidently sail and handle the boat in a F2 and now you want to trapeze.

I take my hat off to you, you sure are a A* wind up merchant.

Scruff, I don't know whether to ignore you, or ask you to ignore me. I'm sorry if I've described things unclearly, but you're not helping.

Here's the point, if I may clarify: I've sailed lots of simple boats in lots of weather - Toppers, Lasers, Mirrors, Bosuns, Wayfarers, beach-cats in Australia, and numerous others which didn't have names I knew. None were the least bit daunting, and I always easily coped well enough to feel thoroughly confident. I know how to sail...

...so I believe myself ready to go up a step in terms of complexity and performance...my only trouble is that I expected the step-up to be steeper than it has so far been.

...the fact that I expected the Osprey to be scary (and unwisely voiced my fears) seems to have persuaded some here that I'm an absolute beginner. Not so, at all.

I suppose you can only interpret 'facts' from what I've said, so if I've misled you, I apologise.

As far as trapezing is concerned, it seems to be a vital part of keeping an Osprey upright in anything much more than a zephyr, so treating the harness as something I'll want before long, doesn't seem unreasonable.

If I may say so, there's an absolute paranoia about trolling and time-wasting on this forum. If more time was spent just answering questions, instead of chipping in suspicious digs at people who were genuinely hoping for specific advice, threads would be a lot shorter.

Then again, I wouldn't recognise a 'troll' if I met one in the cellar. I'll cork it, now. Thanks folks!

 

[Kelpie]

Re: depth of reef
I can only advise from a Wayfarer point of view, but it may help a little, as I presume your mainsail is a similar size and indeed probably larger.

May I humbly suggest that what you need is a single reef installed in a fairly simple manner, such that it can be tied in before you launch. An on-the-go system will be more complex and expensive, and could always come later as a modification. Don't put the reef too deep or you'll end up hardly ever using it. Again, you could add a deeper reef next year when you finally attempt your Transat in a f11...

On a Wayfarer, a single reef would normally be about 1.2m up the luff, or if it's the first of two reefs, then about 0.8m or so.
Watch out for the batten pockets, you want your reefs to be clear of these so that you don't end up fighting the batten which will be at an angle to the boom.
I deliberated about my reef positions and ended up choosing two, at about 0.9 and 1.8m. Two reefs means twice the cost and twice as much string cluttering up the boat- don't underestimate this. In practise I use the first reef a lot, but the second one is not currently rigged up (oops)- I took the line out once during a drifting match, and have never got round to putting it back in