What is reckless behaviour

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smurfer

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Following noticing a thread on Scuttlebutt “Not before time”, apart from the obvious buzzing boats at moorings and travelling too fast in un-appropriate situations, what actually constitutes 'reckless behaviour'.

This is a serious question as I seem to detect an increasing hostility to motorboats just because of their capabilities.

This isn’t a raggy v motorboat point but more an attempt to clarify what the growing issue is so that it can be defended if necessary, I see it that I am increasingly suffering abuse from raggies just for being a motorboat.

Generally I conduct myself with the utmost respect for other users when on the water. But have endured somewhat caustic attitudes just motoring along keeping myself to myself. (happy to give examples if requested)

The point I am making is this, I think incidents of reckless behaviour are far less than the go as slow as possible brigade are alluding to, the unregulated nature of boating is its biggest appeal and frankly all of our right’s are under threat because of the attitude towards motorboats as apposed to real cases of reckless behaviour.

I know this question is turning into a rant and therefore I extend my apologies, but I see the posts regarding the inconsiderate morons around anchorages, I have witnessed and heard some incredible reckless behaviour from the other kind of boating and it doesn’t get a mention because speed is an uninvolved factor!

So what is reckless?
 
Whilst there might be an occasional moronic muttering of envy at the speed capability, the vast majority of raggies could not give a toss about your zooming around, other than when it directly impacts us by causing fright, and damage to our boats.

The whole point about a raggie is that we are not in any hurry to get anywhere, we get our relaxation from being on the water, and I might be in the minority, but I find that a mobo/rib/pwc that passes close enough to me to splash spray into my cockpit is more than I can stand.
 
One example that happened to me on Sunday when entering the Needles Channel was a Targa 35 that zoomed past me at 30+knots clearing me by 2 metres on his port side and the Bridge cardinal by 1 metre on his starboard side whilst the Bridge cardinal was less than 10 metres on my starboard beam. BTW there was empty water all around .. why?
 
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The whole point about a raggie is that we are not in any hurry to get anywhere, we get our relaxation from being on the water,

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I think the same could be said for Mobo'ers, We are not in a hurry to get places either, its just that the boats that we choose to own and run are designed to go a bit faster than others. Most mobo'ers don't go around with full wide open throttles.

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but I find that a mobo/rib/pwc that passes close enough to me to splash spray into my cockpit is more than I can stand.

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I think that, we can all understand, we anchor, or tie to a buoy, quite a lot, and it is annoying, when the wakes start to disturb your peace, I have never been buzzed by a boat that has ended up with water being sprayed into the boat, but i believe that is totally unacceptable.

All IMHO.

Cheers

Ali.
 
I am not going to try and define reckeless as a dictonary does it.
However, as you allude there is a huge distinction between inconsiderate behaviour and reckless behaviour - and significant degrees within inconsiderate as well.

Generally mobos are viewed automatically as inconsiderate as they make a wake. Can't do a lot about that and in flat calm open water a 45ft "gin palace" making 25knots is going to have everything rocking around for a mile either side - inconsiderate? not per see in my view but when it makes no attempt to vary it's course from passing close to an anchored fishing boat or small sailing vessel (both effectively static) then yes (in my view). In crowded open water such as the solent passing (relatively) close to someone can unavoidable but again I would expect it to do it's best.

Speeding and thereby creating a wake in an anchorage or quiet zone falls into reckless and automatically inconsiderate in my book.

Creating a wake when travelling within the designated speed limit <u>in the main channels</u> of areas such as Poole Harbour and Chichester Harbour are the grey areas for me; and probably what cause the most friction outwith the solent!
 
Re What happened to Jimi, I agree that is reckless behaviour and such types shouldn't be allowed to drive a dingy let alone a large powerful cruiser. As a boat mechanic I frequently see boats with faulty steering and engine controls, often we are the ones that bring it to the owners attention.
For example imagine the consequences of what could happen if the steering went awry just as he passed your vessel, or one of the engines died causing the boat to slew while travelling at high speed, it doesn't bear thinking about.
And don't let us kid ourselves it won't happen to me, I experienced steering failure on an outboard powered boat at only 15 kts and the engine went to full lock and nearly rolled the boat over, and the boat was brand new!
I think its long overdue to name and shame these irresponsible jerks who get the rest of us a bad name.
 
I've often wondered this. Up the dart a trip boat skipper whistled at me to slow down. I was doing six knots. Speed limit 8 knots.

Then up the Tamar I got shouted at for doing 8 knots with a speed limit of 10 knots. Mind I bet they were a bit pissed off when 30 seconds later, some pillock shot through the moorings at 25 knots, waving like hell at us!!
 
Its interesting that the debate is always between sailing boats and motor boats, rather than between responsible water users and irresponsible ones. Sailing boats are much less effected by wash than planing motor boats, in fact I was surprised how little effect a large ferry wash had on a 30 ft sailing boat beam on. So actually responsible motor boat users are the ones who suffer most from the actions of irresponsible ones.
 
like yourself, I feel there is an evergrowing hostility towards power boat owners. I recently wrote an article on this forum about a yacht owner who shook his fist at me when I went past his mooring at idle speed 1 or 2 knots. The regular fishermen always give me a wave because my respect to them is appreciated.
On Sunday I was returning to the marina at Coleraine when I met 2 power boats both doing approx 30 knots, there were several people in the shallow water fishing and at least 5 row boats, the occupants also fishing. Both boats passed about 50 ft from me and the row boats, this caused a lot of anger from all involved except the two boat owners who were unaware of the danger left in their wake. The people fishing in the shallows had to run to avoid a soaking. Is it any wonder people get cross with us. As far as Joe Public is concerned a boat is a boat. I believe that the only long term answer is education - Licences
 
Agee completely with another poster that the real distiction is between considerate & inconsiderate rather than mobo & ychtie.. However a large mobo belting at you at high speed is considerably scarier than a a similar size yacht at it max speed. Just to amplify on my situation at the Needles before some bozo says I probably tacked across him, I was singlehanded (on my way back from Torquay) was on autopilot and had been on the same course for the last 5hours so I was hardly unpredictable!!
 
Yes that is a good point, the type, quoting HLB, of "pillock shot through the moorings at 25 knots, waving like hell at us!! " is unlikely to slow down for either Raggies or Mobo's just a nuisance to all and their wash does not discriminate either.
 
So far responses are speed and distance related, I agree high speed near distance in open water is reckless, so we have one potential crime.

The list isn’t getting very long, if we as motor boaters accept this then we are always the bad guy’s because of the boats capabilities.

Yet I have experienced a plethora of incidents where speed is not the factor of concern:

Overloading with guests, abysmal manoeuvring, attempting entrance into harbour under sail trying start engine and no joy so look out world, how about travelling in a restricted channel and a race cuts across you?

Boats will keep getting faster and frankly when you are out there plus or minus 10 knots makes no difference to anybody accept as to when you arrive and when you leave.

We are all being tarred with the same brush, I go through the Solent often, the frequent washes I hit are extremely uncomfortable at speed, but by the time they come to me the cause is often long gone, yet I have seen real fury from individuals who have experienced washes of no comparison from motor boaters in their general area but who’s wash can be attributed!

We need to fight these attitudes and associations of speed with reckless or our enjoyment will be further deteriorated.

What do you think?
 
Whole heartedly agree!

Couldn't agree more with your last post.

I suspect the drink/helming law will be classed as reckless.
Testing flares on board (as I saw this weekend).
Blasting along @ 25+ knts in thick fog without Radar. (Boasted by one mobo recently)
Smilarly the unlit ribs that speed through the solent at night.
What about individuals who drift and fish in mid navigable channels.
Boats with divers down and no identifying flags.

Speed in itself is not reckless nor irresposible.

My fear is that as others have said, the presumption is that it is ALWAYS only mobo owners who are deemed irresponsible and therefore we are an ever becoming an ever increasing and easy target for any irate raggie.

I have done many years of sailing and I know that wash is indeed much more uncomfortable in a planning mobo then a fully keeled vessel.
 
Just noticed the small picture below derekh's name. Could this perhaps be included as reckless behaviour /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
As someone with miles and years of experience I've seen bad behaviour of all kinds by users of all types of boats as well as some incredibly generous, helpful, courteous behaviour from all types of users. It's not the boat type that determines the way of things it's the person in charge of the vessel!

I have a foot in both camps as it were; at work we have a large RIB with 90hp engine (very fast), which I regularly take groups of children out in; usually in Wales. My own boat is a very traditional clinker built yacht (somewhat slow!). I will admit that sailing is the greater love but enjoy the RIB too.

What's important to me is to respect the sea and the other people out on it irrespective of whatever they happen to be in at the time I encounter them.

All IMHO, of course, I think it's attitudes that need changing rather than regulations, etc!
 
Too right Jimi! I think one of the most frustrating factors is the sheer pointlessness of it.

For example we were in an anchorage last month swimming and sunbathing and enjoying the peace when a large mobo arrived and anchored about ten metres away. A rib was immediately launched from the stern and a fat balding middle aged man then proceeded to speed around the anchorage in it! WHY?????
 
Where I live (here in Florida) I am right on the edge of the 'No Wake Zone' (aka manatee zone) on the intercoastal water way, I have two boats on my dock, the Big boat which can take any wash thrown at it and the little boat, a Chris Craft 28 Launch. The later of the two I have on a lift, which is a great idea. I guess for safety reasons the lift is very slow, this can be frustrating!!! As you all know a boat produces the most wake when getting on or coming off the plane, and as I mentioned earlier I am right on the edge of the NWZ. SO I have to wait for a gap in the boats to try and dock the chris craft on the lift. Not normally a problem as the intercoastal is very straight and boaters can see me and tend to slow down before they get too near knocking me against the lift. HOWEVER on occasions you get a total mindless idiot that not only speeds past me, but comes within 15ft to see what I'm doing. Now if I have the owner on board I have to act professional which means I am unable to shout at them. But isn't it amazing how some people have NO CLUE!!
Another example
In St Barths last Christmas: I was helping out with a charter on a Ferretti 80 and we were anchored off Gustavia with all the big boys. A large mega yacht left it's stern too morring within the harbour and was leaving at cruising speed of approx 14 knots. 180ft boat at 14 knots in an anchorage!!! My guests were having breakfast and the 4ft wash they created really shook their strawberries and croissants. I radio'd the said vessel to see what the hurry was...... he said 'Sorry mate, got guests to pick up in Sint Maarten' so it's not just the untrained people that have no clue. BTW it was a british captain too!!!!

Chris
 
I too have a foot in both camps, I own and enjoy a small motor boat and am lucky enough to sail regularly with a friend.

As a number of others have pointed out there are good and bad in both camps, however I would venture to suggest that there is a higher proportion of baddies amongst the mobos.

Raggies require (and generally aquire) a certain level of seamanship before they can physically steer their craft out of the harbour. On the other hand, we have all seen examples of guys who have simply slotted themselves into the helm seat of a brand new mobo and leaned heavily against the throttle. There is no requirement to obtain training beyond what is offered by the broker as he hands over the keys.

Clearly the vast majority of mobo owners who post regularly on here are responsible, experienced and competent skippers and for that reason the raggie v mobo argument is largely uneccessary.

Perhaps it's the case for training that should be debated?
 
I see the problem differently, its not mobos or raggies or anyone in particular, yes there is reckless behaviour and we all condem it, the problem is that what now constitutes reckless is being whittled away to the point if you go at any speed in a mobo or raggie near to some peeps its classed as reckless. Years ago when you went out on the water you just accepted that you are a lump of plastic in a rolly polly enviroment, boats went past, fast and slow and you rocked about a bit, no probs, I am on a boat.

Now people expect the same enviroment at sea as when sitting on their pride and joy at the boat show or sheltered marina sipping champers or having afternoon G&T. Some are having afternoon tea anchored up almost mid channel but because they are stopped they expect everyone else to do the same.

I have had all sorts waving at me shaking fists blah,blah, blah etc when doing 25 knts 300-400 metres away, if I slowed to 12 knts the wash actually gets bigger but because I would be going slower no rant and rave.

Apart from the obvious mobo twit getting too close or the raggie attempting to enter a busy marina in a gale a wind under sail and everyone scattering before him as he tacks like a mad man trying to show off his skills at sailing ( start the bloody engine yah wally! you know who you are) people have just got to accept that its wet stuff out there and water goes up and down and you just might god forbid get splashed.

I find it very rare that the really experienced sailor, fisherman or mobo guy gets upset by a bit of wash or bouncing about, usually its the fairly new peeps a few seasons old think they are now old dogs and no one has a right to be out there but themselves.

Next they'll be sueing God for allowing the wind to get up and ruining their sunday lunch on board!
 
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