What courtesy flag in Shetland?

[Leif-J]

We have an ambition of sailing from Copenhagen to Shetland when it get summer again. What courtsey flag do we fly when approaching Lerwick? Red Ensign and/or something else?
Would like to show the locals due respect.

 

[JayBee]

A Red Ensign will be OK when you arrive. After you have tied up in Lerwick, a one minute walk to the tourist office at the Market Cross will enable you to buy a Shetland flag - white St Georges's cross on a blue background.

I would hoist it on the port spreader and keep the Red Ensign on the starboard one. I can't imagine anyone in Shetland objecting to that, although some flag etiquette experts will probably be along shortly to point out the error of my ways.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I think I would be inclined to fly the Scottish flag ( the Sltire) on the basis that the only people who are likely to care at all are the Scots Nats.

But this being the UK I doubt that anyone would be that upset if you flew the flag of the Congo.

 

[Sandy]

Or the Norwegian flag

 

[oldbilbo]

We have an ambition of sailing from Copenhagen to Shetland when it get summer again. What courtsey flag do we fly when approaching Lerwick? Red Ensign and/or something else?
Would like to show the locals due respect.

Leif-J,

I do hope you enjoy your visit to Shetland this coming summer. While you are in the vicinity of Lerwick, I am certain you will find - as have many others - a very warm welcome extended by members of the Lerwick Boating Club, for which they are internationally famous.

 

[onesea]

A Red Ensign will be OK when you arrive. After you have tied up in Lerwick, a one minute walk to the tourist office at the Market Cross will enable you to buy a Shetland flag - white St Georges's cross on a blue background.....

Not certain about the Red Ensign but...

Or the Norwegian flag

I think I would be inclined to fly the Scottish flag ( the Sltire) on the basis that the only people who are likely to care at all are the Scots Nats.

But this being the UK I doubt that anyone would be that upset if you flew the flag of the Congo.

I think with latest devolution stuff any of the above would be prefarable to most scots than the Red-ensign

 

[JayBee]

Don't confuse the people of Shetland with Scots elsewhere. They have a very strong sense of their own separate identity and historical connections with Norway.

A sentiment I have heard expressed there is:

"All we ever got from Scotland was dear meal and greedy ministers."

The Scots Nats do not (or did not) enjoy the same support in Shetland that they can muster elsewhere in Scotland.

Shetland and Orkney have usually returned Lib Dem MPs to Westminster.

The Shetlanders are a seafaring people, many of whom have happily sailed under the Red Ensign for generations.

But...who cares? No-one is going to get bent out of shape about a bit of bunting - not even them Scots Nats bogeymen.

 

[dulcibella]

Red ensign, clearly. It's still part of Britain as far as I know.

 

[MASH]

Anything but the Red Ensign is just plain wrong. As said above Scotland is a part of the United - with the emphasis on "united" Kingdom.
If, God forbid, Scotland decides to become independant it might be something else, but it will never be any "Shetland flag" until they in turn become independant from Scotland.

Which nation you are in is a pretty basic concept really. Hard to imagine anyone actually needs to ask, esp international boat people!

Who cares? Shame on you! Flag etiquette is just that, etiquette. Equals manners. Bad flag etiquette equals international bad manners and contrary to the "who cares" view that, in a visitor is a rude and pig-ignorant attitude when a guest in another country...

 

[JayBee]

Anything but the Red Ensign is just plain wrong. As said above Scotland is a part of the United - with the emphasis on "united" Kingdom.
If, God forbid, Scotland decides to become independant it might be something else, but it will never be any "Shetland flag" until they become independant from Scotland.

Which nation you are in is a pretty basic concept really. Hard to imagine anyone actually needs to ask, esp international boat people!

Who cares? Shame on you! Flag etiquette is just that, etiquette. Equals manners. Bad flag etiquette equals international bad manners and contrary to the "who cares" view that is a hideously rude and pig-ignorant attitude when visiting another country...

Wow!

 

[MASH]

JB, why would anyone want to visit foreign places and insult the people there by a public display of bad manners? That's pure Albert Steptoe.

Why is objecting to that "WoW"??? Do please explain...

 

[JayBee]

MASH

I doubt if any explanation of mine would satisfy someone with your attitude.

FWIW, I have never met anyone, apart from one or two Venezuelan customs officers in need of a bottle of scotch and a carton of cigarettes who felt INSULTED by a breach of "flag etiquette".

Try and lighten up a bit.

 

[theoldsalt]

JayBee,

Then I suggest you get out a little more. There are many of us out here that do care and can be insulted by a breach of/bad flag etiquette.

 

[mcframe]

Or the Norwegian flag

As curtesy flags go, a red ensign, above a Scottish ensign, above a Norwegian ensign† on the same hoist, might have a certain irony...

† Proper one, with tails

 

[JayBee]

JayBee,

Then I suggest you get out a little more. There are many of us out here that do care and can be insulted by a breach of/bad flag etiquette.

I wonder how you sticklers for flag etiquette manage to enjoy your sailing when those in breach of it seem to be everywhere?

It must be tough being on the receiving end of so many insults and be powerless to do anything about it.

I first went to sea in a crack liner company in the 1960s as a deck cadet. Flag drill was all important in port and the ensign was hoisted and other flags (all on their correct halyards) broken out at 0800 by whistle signal from the 3rd Officer stationed at the chronometer.

While this was going on the main business of the ship, working cargo and earning money, was not taken terribly seriously. That's how some shipping companies of the MN operated and the rest is history.

What kind of old salt are you, by the way?

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I usually hoik up a pair of old underpants when I arrive. Some people think it's some sort of courtesy procedure, but it's usually just to give them a freshening airing before putting them back into use.

 

[JayBee]

I usually hoik up a pair of old underpants when I arrive. Some people think it's some sort of courtesy procedure, but it's usually just to give them a freshening airing before putting them back into use.

Leif (the OP) must be wondering what kind of etiquette minefield he will be sailing into.

Puts me in mind of an incident one of Patrick O'Brian's books, where a Danish warship arriving in the Downs was fired upon for failing to salute the English Admiral. O'Brian was a good historian, so this was quite probably based on fact.

It seems that the "outraged courtesy gene" still exists in the nation's DNA.

 

[ctva]

Leif, you will notice that any sensible question usually gets stupid and self indulgent answers from smart ***** (who probably aren't from Scotland). Take the advice from JayBee in his first post and ignore the rest, especially the nonsense on the Saltire which could be flown in the same way as the Shetland flag below the Red Ensign if you visit the mainland.

Flags are polite and fun, in the same way as learning a smattering of the language when visiting a foreign country. Some people just take life too seriously.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Some people think it's some sort of courtesy procedure, but it's usually just to give them a freshening airing before putting them back into use.

Reversed I hope

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Leif, you will notice that any sensible question usually gets stupid and self indulgent answers from smart ***** (who probably aren't from Scotland).

Leif - I think you can see a hint of the underlying troubles from this post and the comment about where people live.

The purely legal / technical answer to your original question is that you fly the red ensign of the country you are visiting - the United Kingdom. The Saltire or any local flags including the English one and the Welsh one have no standing in maritime affairs.

But because it is in reality a bit of a political minefield, you can upset either the Scots Nats or those who still believe in the United ( laugh here!) Kingdom. In this situation its best not to poke the sleeping dog with a stick if I can put it that way. No one will be worried if you dont fly a courtesy flag at all, and no one will take offence at that. People will be very friendly towards you anyway.

So maybe its best not to fly anything except your own flag