What catamaran should I buy?

[goeasy123]

We're interested in buying our first catamaran. We're thinking of a production boat on a value for money basis. Lagoon seemed to be an obvious contender because of popularity. However, there's a slew of YouTube videos (including, but not limited to Parlay) slamming them for serious design and manufacturing flaws.

Is this a problem across the whole Lagoon range?

Are other production cats likely to be so poorly built, to meet the price bracket?

 

[capnsensible]

I delivered a lagoon 45 earlier this year. Mebbe the new owner got lucky, we had very few problems and overall I was quite impressed. Like any boat, there was some things to sort, but minor.

Personally, regarding modern Catamarans, I've delivered and worked on a couple of different Fontaine Pajoit versions and I like em.

What size are you thinking of?

Edit to add the Vagabonds Outreimer looked quite neat when I saw it in our marina. Plus, of course, there's shed loads of video time about it.

 

[EugeneR]

Where and how are you planning to use it?

Some boats offer lots of space and convenience, and even low price, but are heavy, slow and slams a lot - not the nicest or safest for crossing oceans.

 

[EugeneR]

Deleted

 

[goeasy123]

OP here. I'm all sorted for answers except the quality issue. I just need to know if all Lagoons are off my list and what other production cats might have similar problems.

From what I see on YouTube the stuff behind the cabinetry is a train wreak. Poor build quality of a individual boat is one thing. Design is another issues altogether. The main bulkhead configuration is shocking and there seems to be poor connectivity between ajoining structural surfaces. Is this common in production cat design?

 

[goeasy123]

Yachtworld has twice as many Lagoons for sale than anything else. I wonder if this is the norm or are people aware of the issues and have stopped buying them?

 

[capnsensible]

Do you have a link to that?

The guy I delivered the lagoon for looked at a couple before buying. Don't think he saw snags. ??

 

[capnsensible]

Yachtworld has twice as many Lagoons for sale than anything else. I wonder if this is the norm or are people aware of the issues and have stopped buying them?

Could it be that lots went to med charter companies who have had to get rid of their fleets due to bat bug?

 

[goeasy123]

Do you have a link to that?

The guy I delivered the lagoon for looked at a couple before buying. Don't think he saw snags. ??

A series starting with this...

There are others/

 

[capnsensible]

Eek! Not a good advert. But I see plenty around all over the place. Makes you wonder if others have issues so far not been noticed.

Worth the money for a good surveyor should you see one you like. Perhaps chatting to a surveyor may help too.

 

[penfold]

Yachtworld has twice as many Lagoons for sale than anything else. I wonder if this is the norm or are people aware of the issues and have stopped buying them?

Ockham says that just means Lagoon have sold lots of boats.

 

[Rappey]

I've been following parley revival before he bought the hurricane damaged cat. From his videos it does seem the issue is with the 45ft as he has not mentioned other sizes having a problem yet. The biggest problem is that the potential flaw is hidden behind the cabinetry and without destruction the bulkhead can't be assessed but Colin (parley revival) did say all lagoons can be checked and remedied now by lagoon
The first check was to use a piece of string diagonally across the saloon floor to see if it's sagging in the middle, suggesting the bottom of the hulls are moving outwards.
Colin was on a season of "below decks" as chief engineer.
"Sailing ruby rose" have lots of video tours and test sails of virtually every cat available explaining what they liked and didn't like before they made their choice.

 

[sailaboutvic]

We not cat people but we been on many for drink and people seen more honst about their boat when face to face I not come across a lagoon Owner that's not had complaints about the lagoon which are not minor .
Two weeks ago we sailed or should I say motored through the Messina stri forecaster SW 3 possibly 4 What we got was a NW F4, 40 miles almost on the nose with no shelter to anchor only option was to turn back but by which time we was too far gone.
Plus you keep thinking any min now the winds going to change , off course it didn't.
By Mid day they where still given SW 3 any way our friends have an early Logoon 42 ,
The trip wasn't pleasant but for us not the worst trip we had our friend where convince their boat was about the break up the boat slamed like a pig .
As a livaboad they have plenty of room view from in side 360d , you wouldn't need to step out side in bad weather .
Personally I wouldn't want to be in any bad weather in one after the banging noise I could head over the vhf from our friend boat.

 

[Bajansailor]

@goeasy123 I don't think that one can generalise too much about different makes of catamarans - rather, I think you should compile a Statement of Requirements as to what you want your new boat to be capable of doing, and then try to find the boat that best fits these requirements.
Try to make it as comprehensive as possible, including size, type, hull material, and perhaps most importantly, budget available, and then have a look around the brokerage sites to see what is available.
Do you just want it for coastal cruising, or maybe around Europe, or do you want to cross the Atlantic and perhaps even go around the world - or even just use it as a houseboat?

 

[goeasy123]

@goeasy123 I don't think that one can generalise too much about different makes of catamarans - rather, I think you should compile a Statement of Requirements as to what you want your new boat to be capable of doing, and then try to find the boat that best fits these requirements.
Try to make it as comprehensive as possible, including size, type, hull material, and perhaps most importantly, budget available, and then have a look around the brokerage sites to see what is available.
Do you just want it for coastal cruising, or maybe around Europe, or do you want to cross the Atlantic and perhaps even go around the world - or even just use it as a houseboat?

As I said abpve, I'm all sorted for answers except the quality issue. I just need to know if all Lagoons are off my list and what other production cats might have similar problems.

 

[Zing]

As I said abpve, I'm all sorted for answers except the quality issue. I just need to know if all Lagoons are off my list and what other production cats might have similar problems.

I’ve also been considering a cat as my next boat. I’ve had a look at a lot and have read what I can. Lagoons and a few other makes of condomarans give you massive space for your money, but they are not built to the same quality standards as I would like. The use of adhesives in bulkheads and floor pans instead of tabbing and glassed ribs/stringers is something I don’t want. Likewise flimsy joinery. You get low cost and massive space at the expense of quality. The market says it is happy with that trade off. If you are is up to you.

I see the problem of the Lagoon 45 as being model specific and was it was a major mistake such that all boat builders make from time to time.

The fact that more Lagoons are for sale will reflect at least to a degree the fact that they are the biggest builder of new cats, so there are more out there to start with.

 

[Yngmar]

I don't know about Lagoon, but I've nosed around several new boats the last couple years and talked to their owners. Many had quality issues, including dire ones (and some that just boggle the mind, like a multi-bit screwdriver rolling around inside the diesel tank). That includes FP, Nautitech, Jeanneau, Beneteau. Probably others, but those are the ones I know about and seen the evidence myself.

I've also met some happy ones, like the new owners of a Bavaria Vision ~40, but then I know Bavaria also had bad years in the past, so you'd really need to have your finger on the pulse of the boatyard to tell. A key difference was that this wasn't their first boat, so they had a much better idea of what to expect. First time buyers or first time new boat buyers often are the most disappointed because they think it'll be like that new car they bought. It's not!

A lot of it is also luck of the draw. On one catamaran, all the problems were in one hull, the other had none. Clearly a different work crew on each hull. And where the yard didn't mess up, the aftermarket installer of the options (electronics, batteries, heaters, etc.) can mess up instead. So when buying a new boat, expect to find some unpleasant surprises - but sometimes only after months or years of using it. Or buy a slightly used boat where someone has hopefully already discovered and fixed them. It also saves you from putting those first dents in the furniture yourself

Most of the yards were admitting to their cockups and eventually got them sorted, but since they were often discovered only after sailing away, this takes time, nerves and impacts your cruising plans (and thus often ends up costing extra money). Parts need to be shipped and local workers found that can replace them (who often aren't sufficiently experienced with those parts).

 

[BurnitBlue]

A good well written series of blogs about a circumnavigation in a Catamaran is Bumfuzzle. Their problems with delamination of both hulls cost them a fortune with no help from the builder. But they are American and sued every one in sight in a good fair fight. The builder went bankrupt and the surveyer took a hit. The boat was sorted in New Zealand and Australia half way round their circumnavigation. A good list of costs are given and demonstrate the foolish notion of buying a boat without solid knowledge of the build quality.

I owned a catamaran for 5 years and had a few minor problems. It was a Prout and all bulkheads and structeral "BONES" of the boat were visable and not hidden behind cosmetic cabinetry.

An option I would always consider with a catamaran would be to by a "bare" boat with just skin and bulheads. I did that once. There was enough room instde the bare hull to set up the workshop.. Shave a peice of wood on the bench, turn round and see it it fits. Shave a bit more.

 

[[3889]]

I delivered a new Lagoon 50 last year from Bordeaux to BVIs. We had a few issues ,e.g. losing all instruments/ autopilot courtesy of a blown 2A fuse buried deep in both the headlining and the wiring diagrams, but nothing extraordinary for a production boat commissioned in a hurry. Builder's support was reasonable. Not a boat to buy if you enjoy sailing, even with the eye-wateringly expensive code 0, but an excellent mobile platform on which to tour the world, or Med, in comfort.
No sufficient concerns for me to turn down the invitation for the TransPac leg next year though not a boat I would buy, as a monophile, for the money.

 

[cherod]

lagoon ,,, is it the ugliest multi available ??