Westerly Seahawk?

Jonny_H

Jonny_H

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 Aug 2006
Messages
1,554
Location
Liveaboard - following the sun!
www.freewebs.com
Hi,

We are planning our big 'get-away' for a couple of years time, unfortunately we will only be away for 12-24 months (funding dependent!).
We are looking at potential boats that meet our criteria and fall within our budget.
The basic criteria at the moment is as follows:
Non-wooden hull (for less maintenance)
Lots of storage
Aft cabin
Less than 40ft (preferably) for ease of handling and reduced running costs
Budget of around £55k max.

The best boat we have seen so far is a Westerly Seahawk which seems to meet all of the above criteria.

Does anyone know how suitable this would be for a live-aboard, and whether it would make ocean passages well (we would hope to do only a couple of these).

Alternatively, does anyone know of any other boats that would meet this criteria? We have discounted Benetaus etc due to their lightweight construction. Another possibility is a Southerly 110/115 which meet the interior criteria of the wife, but how do these hold up in rough seas etc?

Any advice much appreciated! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jonny
 
I wasn't sure about Bavaria's as a liveaboard boat? I know the newer ones are quite lightly built - would they stand up to an ocean crossing?
The rival looks interesting - will definetly add it to the list - how do you find the long keel for maneuvering in marina's etc, is it easy or does it create problems?

Jonny
 
The Rival doesn’t have a long keel in the traditional sense, but as it's part of the hull it's a lot larger than a bolted on fin keel. As for marina handling the main skill to master on a Rival is the prop walk. Reverse requires a bit of thought, but in forward gear you can spin the boat in it own length as long as you make your turns to starboard (on our boat). During our trip to Denmark we stayed in some pretty pokey marinas and close quarter handling wasn't really an issue. Also, if it does go pear shaped, we have found 'Ranger' is of a size that can still be fended off easily.
 
Rivals et al

The truth that more modern boats are less likely to have taken water into the gelcoat, will have more roomy accomodation and are easier to sail.

Few, if any, boats are sufficiently lightly built to be unsafe at sea and those are mainly to be found on the other side of the Atlantic.

Peter Brett's Rival is a proven seaboat, but desperately short on stowage and, in the smaller ones, headroom for anyone over 6'. Very pretty lines but the overhang results in a short LWL and a low cruising speed. The layup is massive and many have wandered the world.

If you're intending to cruise, your first criterion should be to go for the longest LWL your budget will run to; this gives you load-carrying capacity and higher cruising speed.

The second is to look for a boat that is comprehensively equipped - far cheaper to by the extras with the boat than to fit them later.

Unfortunately your ideal boat is never on the market when you want to buy and, as with all boating, your choice is bound to be a compromise.

As a detail, I'd not recommend a centre cockpit boat for use in the Med, mooring is compromised for a 2-handed crew and the height above the waterline can make the movement in the cockpit oppressive, look at the Falcon as the Westerly alternative.
You'd also be wise to retain about £10k for fitting out - effective refrigeration, watermaker, radar, chartplotter are all desirable additions which are frequantly missing on boats for sale.
 
I'd second that about handling in harbour (at least I assume Rival's handling is a bit similar to Contessa 32, and I just spent the last few weeks in Denmark's tight harbours!). Once you've got used to the ground rules (esp. prop walk and don't expect to turn fast against it in astern), they're actually great to handle in marinas. They have less freeboard than more volume oriented designs, so have less tendency to go sideways rapidly in marinas, which makes them easily handleable singlehanded.

I can appreciate what Charles Reed says about LWL, but IMHO that only applied to light to moderate winds (which may be what's important to you depending when and where you're sailing). When the yacht starts leaning over a bit things get more complicated. Overhangs start to become useful in extending the waterline, low freeboard helps with ability to plug to windward, a narrow hull helps in preventing assymetric underwater shape overloading the rudder (and lifting it out of the water) causing uncontrollable rounding up, and the longish keel helps to keep the boat going in the right direction with minimum crew effort (also helps the windvane do its job). That's why many people prefer more 'traditional' designs.
 
I've sailed a bit on a Rival 38, Sweden38 and my own Bavaria 390, as a comparison.

Bav was a far nicer boat to live on and sail than the others, it doesn't suffer from the rounding up mentioned, despite being 4m wide, it had a huge rudder which helps. She would actually steer herself with the helm locked for hours. The autohelm never worked hard at all.

Only -ve points were high top sides, and standard cooker has no grill otherwise pretty near perfect. Mine did 10,000 miles in 10 months, so she wasn't marina based much.

Standard fridge was fine in warm waters, you don't need a water maker, we had 7 people on the Sweden for 15day crossing and there was plenty of water. With two on a 38-39' boat you can carry enough water for 4-5 weeks easily.

Good luck searching you'll know it when you find it.
 
This is not the first time this has been raised on this forum.I am also looking at the options for liveabord.
It think it is really is horses for courses depending on what your sailing intentions are.
If you want to cross oceans then your choice may well be different if you want to say cruise gently from bay to bay in Turkey.
I am however suprised that you have discounted the beneteau's as being of lightweight construction particulary as the beteteau has been the most popular yacht to take part in the annual ARC crossing of the atlantic.( I think this was published in YM a short while ago)
I am currently considering the Benetaeu 36cc or the heavier Moody 376, Both with centre cockpits which may not be ideal for the med but I would prefer to have a decent aft cabin.
The seahawk has also been discussed in earlier discussions as being a good choice. My only concern would be the usual Westerly gripes of headlinings and potential osmosis.
Thanks for listening
 
The main reason for discounting the Beneteau is that our base (Pwhelli, North Wales) has a lot of these type of boats (many 36cc's infact) and they seem to have quite thin hulls (it is often amusing at night that when people have lights on below decks that you can see the bulkheads etc from outside the boat as the light shines through!)
This said I have no doubt they are capable boats, but their longevity is a concern - how many 10-15 year old beneteau's are still capable of ARC crossings?

I agree with the centre cockpit line you take, for us a decent aft cabin with standing head room and a large double is far more attractive than a cramped rear cabin where you have to climb in from the head of the bed!

My parents have a Moody 38 (circa 2002) with a centre cockpit, and they cruise extensively around the UK, and have gone to the med this year - we'll see how they get on!
I have heard the headlining problems with Westerly's (although surely this is more cosmetic than serious?), and with regards the osmosis is this not something which would be picked up by a survey? Why are the westerly's more prone to osmosis - would be interesting to find out why?

Thanks for all the comments - some very useful info/suggestions coming through - keep them coming!!

Jonny
 
Possibly the greatest advantage

of the heavy long-keeler is that they'll absorb an enormous amount of load before your sailing capability is adversely affected. Interestingly you'll fiind they'll hold their own in light airs providing you can get enough sail-area up.

How well or badly a boat handles in harbour is down to the driver and his familiarity with the boat, not the boat per se, though some elderly, long-keelers, with an offset propshaft can provide some interesting challenges. Personally I LIKE a bit of propwalk for manouevring in tight spots.

On the subject of going to windward, it's not first and foremost a function of freeboard but more of keel shape and tip-turbulence. ANY boat which goes to windward well, will give you a rough, wet ride.
Here again having enough weight to shoulder one's way through a chop is an important factor, together with not being reliant on form-stability.

That's why nearly all modern, wide-hulled, flat-bottomed boats are useless in a windward thrash (apart from the bow-panting destroying the joinery in the forecabin).

But who in their right mind, whilst cruising, go to windward from preference?
 
Re: Possibly the greatest advantage

Yes, I like prop-walk too, allows you to reach the parts that other boats can't reach.

About going to windward in a thrash, it seems to happen to me with regularity that I have to thrash my way to windward from uncomfortable spot A to more comfortable spot B. Always seems to be bit like hard work, but up with the No. 4 and usually have a wonderfully inspiring sail /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Either that or less fun but it saves my bacon.
 
Perhaps

It's simplistic to argue from the specific to the general but

1. mean summer temperature in Trinidad is 27C , quite a bit lower than the temperatures I specified, I'd expect the Bav cooler to work at slightly higher temperatures than 28C and I'd reckon no-one would claim Lymington to be hot.

2. Rather than quote one place that you've got water easily I'll give you the following where I've experienced difficulties and/or had to pay:-
2.1. Bonifacio & Ajaccio, water only available in the marina 2 hrs in 24, during the 2 summer months and none at fuelpoint.
2.2. Islands of Ventotene, Eolians and Ischia.
2.3. Naples Bay.
2.4. Nearly all the islands along the Croatian coast during the summer (water brought in by tankers)
2.5. Stintino and Palau in Sardinia.
you generally have to pay for water in the Med, during the summer months, and if you fill up at St Mary's expect a charge there as well.

Generally speaking N Europe is no problem for ample, free, potable water. Go to islands you'll find constraints during tourist months and in Africa and the Eastern Med quite a lot of difficulties.

Of course if one doesn't intend to go to such places, no reason to have a watermaker, but if you intend to cruise seriously and anchor as a rule a watermaker, though no more essential than a refrigerator, is a boon.
 
Re: Perhaps

Again, thanks for all of this, very useful.

A water maker is something we would definately have onboard, but to my mind this is something we can retro-fit, and I would not base my choice of boat decision on whether or not it has a water-maker.
Whatever boat we choose (with or without water-maker) it will have one when we set off. My main priority is finding a suitable ship:
* Good sea handling
* A good sailing boat (this is after all what we all want to do - sail!!)
* A practical and liveable interior (the boat is a home replacement, therefore needs to accomodate us and our essentials)

In my view these outweigh the spec of the boat - I take in mind the comments that it is better to buy a kitted out £55k yacht than a £50k yacht which needs £10k of stuff, but the overall qualities seem to me more important than whether or not it has a water-maker, or whether the fridge compressor would need replacing (a £300 piece of kit at the end of the day on a £50k yacht!)

Just my thoughts, would be interested in other views ....

Also,I am still keen to here if anyone thinks my view of a Seahawk as a potential candidate is a good choice or not??

Jonny
 
Re: Perhaps

My answer was based on an Atlantic circuit type of cruise, and my experience there in recent years. But also many friends cruising then and now. All ended up thinking that cost/maintenance/space/power requirements for water makers were better used for other items. There was also an issue of reliability. The only happy user I remember was someone who had a direct drive off the engine, but he was much more of an explorer than most on a 70' yacht single handing.

If its the first time you've lived aboard you'll learn about what you really need once you get started, and it's not very much, in terms of equipment. Most second boats (for cruising live aboards that I know) end up being simpler.

Leave earlier with less equipment and then equip the boat in The Canaries when you know what you really want, and not what others suggest you need? Just an idea.
 
Re: Perhaps

If sailing is important to you, then I'm afraid that the Seahawk might not be the ideal boat for you (no offence meant to those who love their Seahawks - different folks, different strokes). Some of the Moodys seem to sail better than you might expect the older (Primrose?) designed 36,39,40 and the (Dixon?)34/346 for example. All should be available in your price range. My preference would be for something like a Contessa 38 perhaps (2 singles aft/double forward I think) unless your requirement for an aft cabin needs to be read as an aft "suite". If the Seahawk appeals, then what about considering a Corsair or Sealord?
 
Re: Perhaps

Dubois design which sails well, better than usual Westerly QC.

Only contras are the centre cockpit (which makes Med mooring difficult, ventilation complicated and is frequently uncomfortable in a seaway) and the possibility of being lumbered with the bilge keel, (making anything but offwind sailing tedious).

I did suggest retaining about £10K for enhancements, I'd not expect you to get watermakers and such on a UK-based boat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

ProDave
This boat near Gairloch needs some urgent attention
Replies
9
Views
809
AntarcticPilot
AntarcticPilot

Share this page

Top