Westerly motorsailers...your impressions, please...

[Greenheart]

Vulcan, Riviera, Konsort Duo. Some very practical all-weather Westerly designs, even rather sleek in the Riviera's case. But...

...how badly are these moderate hulls' sailing performance hurt, by the windscreen and big propellor? Are these boats seriously disappointing under sail, or not at all bad?

And, how successful (or not) was the Konsort Duo's redrawn interior, intended to suit just a skipper and spouse in comfort, rather than five victims in a sea of one another's grubby socks and used paper plates?

And is the Riviera's aft en-suite impossibly constricted in use? And is the visibility seriously restricted from the inside helm?

And is the Vulcan hard to live with on aesthetic grounds? And has anyone tried gutting a Vulcan, to make more interesting use of the roomy interior?

These boats all look like nice practical solutions to the indifferent weather we 'enjoy' in UK-waters. Very unfortunate that the economics of constructing motorsailers prevent most builders from having a serious go. Since Westerly's attempts are almost all twenty years old now, these are temptingly affordable, and their deficiencies must be pretty well-known.

Please share your impressions of them...

 

[NickNap]

Sounds like you and I are in the same position, may I add one more question...

From the point of view of buying one of these now and keeping for next 10 years, are we also inevitably buying a future osmosis job due to the age of the hulls?

 

[E39mad]

Riveria is the same hull as the Seahawk and Falcon iirc

Large prop can be swapped for a feathering 3 blader (maxprop, Gori, Brunton etc) - something I would do on any boat!

 

[JimC]

These boats all look like nice practical solutions to the indifferent weather we 'enjoy' in UK-waters.

Speaking as a Northerner I couldn't agree more. I've spent enough hours huddled behind a sprayhood in the Irish Sea or the North Channel. If one is daft enough to want to go to sea for pleasure in these latitudes then one might as well have a boat that can keep the atrocious weather out. Things may be different in the sunny Solent.

 

[Tranona]

The concept is very attractive - but out of the three only the Konsort would be considered a success sales wise, and then for only a short period. Seems perhaps that people who have the money to buy a boat of that size also have good taste and perhaps could not see the benefits of the deck saloon over the ugliness of the superstructure!

It is really difficult to design a sleek looking deck saloon under 40ft, so the most successful wheelhouse yachts are mainly of the upright motor sailer variety. There are, of course exceptions such as the Eclipse and the Evasion and more recently the Sirrus, and one or two of the Scandinavians such as the Nauticat. But few of the "plonk a deck saloon on a sailing boat hull" variety work.

If you are buying one then all the usual caveats about buying a Westerly apply.

 

[Greenheart]

Actually JimC, the 'sunny Solent' is exactly the area I had in mind, where recreational sailors would benefit enormously from protection against raincloud-bearing June force-fives.

It's always seemed nuts to me, that when we can easily build yachts that allow weatherproof steering positions, we still routinely buy boats that make navigation as comfortless as cycling through rain and snowstorms. Which of us would buy a car which didn't provide cover and heating, for use in the UK? Why?!

Nobody goes sailing expecting ghastly weather (do they?!), but everyone knows there may be unpleasant conditions. A screened control position seems to me to be an absolutely basic necessity. I'm continually surprised at the hundreds of thousands of pounds' worth of GRP in every corner of every marina, built and meant only for the kind of glorious weather that we rarely get in the UK!

I never liked the Moody Eclipse's appearance and layout as much as the Westerly Riviera's. I always liked the Riviera's availability as a bilge-keeler, too, though I daresay Moody did offer the same. Maybe the bigger Eclipses were prettier.

 

[Ubergeekian]

It's always seemed nuts to me, that when we can easily build yachts that allow weatherproof steering positions, we still routinely buy boats that make navigation as comfortless as cycling through rain and snowstorms. Which of us would buy a car which didn't provide cover and heating, for use in the UK?

Approximately 100,000 people per year buy a new motorcycle in the UK.

 

[JimC]

... against raincloud-bearing June force-fives.

I wish! One boat of this general type that doesn't appear on your list is the Hunter Horizon 32. She must be well-suited to the sunny Solent because the prototype won her class in the Round the Island race.

 

[Greenheart]

Ubergeekian, I know bike-buyers are everywhere...and, some of them are my best friends!!

But really, are there tax-breaks, or extraordinary performance advantages to anyone in a boat with no serious weather protection?

I spent most of the 'nineties as a pillion on a bike, round London. It was fast and fun. And, pretty comfortless in winter. I recognise it's popular, and for a reason, but I can't see why a yacht without a dry place to steer, would be a nicer proposition than one that's as comfortable in all weather, as a Range-Rover.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I spent most of the 'nineties as a pillion on a bike, round London. It was fast and fun. And, pretty comfortless in winter. I recognise it's popular, and for a reason, but I can't see why a yacht without a dry place to steer, would be a nicer proposition than one that's as comfortable in all weather, as a Range-Rover.

But I, similarly, can't see why a road vehicle without a dry place to steer, would be a nicer proposition than one that's as comfortable in all weather, as a motor-sailor.

We're back on the old multihull vs. real boat D) argument again. What's discomfort to some people is fun to others. Besides, has anyone ever made a deckhouse yacht under 40 feet long that did not either look or sail like a pig? Comfort, appearance, performance: pick two.

 

[E39mad]

LM Vitesse/Vision 33 or 35 worth a look also.

Of all I'd have a Vancouver 34 Pilot although it's another price bracket.

One problem of all/most of these boats is that without any heal you usually need to stand up to see where you're going.

 

[Greenheart]

Put that way Ubergeekian, it certainly sounds like a cyclical question whose answers only breed further grounds for disagreement.

If you really want to know why almost everyone who could have comfort and warmth at sea in midwinter, nevertheless buys a shallow-cockpit affair that SWMBOs almost universally hate...well, don't ask me!! I'm dead-set on that Range-Rover comfort!

But I'd maintain that the Westerly Riviera was not a 'pig', by any standards, and particularly not, considering its 35' length. So I'd say it can be done without offending the eye.

 

[pvb]

But I'd maintain that the Westerly Riviera was not a 'pig', by any standards, and particularly not, considering its 35' length. So I'd say it can be done without offending the eye.

The Riviera was one of the prettier attempts. The Vulcan, although said to be a good boat, is impossibly ugly!

 

[Greenheart]

Yes, alas, that fact struck me. Though, I'm sure my total interior redesign (until it resembled a gentlemen's club, in fact) and some skilled adjustment of the deck-layout, would make it better-looking, and more welcoming to anyone entertained aboard, and less difficult to admit ownership of.

Does anyone know if Vulcans are showing worrying infirmity after 30 years' use? They do look like value, but not if osmosis and rust mean a lot of costly rejuvenation.

 

[pvb]

It's possible that extensive redesign of the interior of a Vulcan might render it even harder to re-sell in the future. So unless you're prepared to live with it for ever, it might be financially advantageous to consider something else.

 

[Greenheart]

Given how dissatisfied I always am with the design of yachts' interiors and the presumption that they'll only ever be used for at least half-a-dozen people's barely-adequate carriage, rather than two or three old friends' genuine comfort...well, I have to accept that any vessel I'm free to refit to my own specification, will not quickly find another similar buyer.

Although, as so often, I tend to think we're too often the accepting victims of marketing-departments' assumptions...if you and your spouse go sailing, sometimes with another couple or one or two friends, does the French-style cram-'em-in accommodation which your yacht arrived with, really strike you as the best use of space for your needs? I can't think of any time I ever needed five or six berths aboard a 32 footer.

So, maybe my 'eccentric' redesign would actually attract more real sailing folk than it would turn-off. I'd prefer a feeling of oppulent luxury for two, to a crush for five. I doubt I'm alone in that respect. Not that it'll change my outlook, even if I am!!

 

[ThermalCoal]

The vulcan forecabin is roomy. the heads are spacious. But there is a dreaded catch 22 in action.

 

[chrisclin]

Vulcan, Riviera, Konsort Duo. Some very practical all-weather Westerly designs, even rather sleek in the Riviera's case. But...

...how badly are these moderate hulls' sailing performance hurt, by the windscreen and big propellor? Are these boats seriously disappointing under sail, or not at all bad?

And, how successful (or not) was the Konsort Duo's redrawn interior, intended to suit just a skipper and spouse in comfort, rather than five victims in a sea of one another's grubby socks and used paper plates?

And is the Riviera's aft en-suite impossibly constricted in use? And is the visibility seriously restricted from the inside helm?

And is the Vulcan hard to live with on aesthetic grounds? And has anyone tried gutting a Vulcan, to make more interesting use of the roomy interior?

These boats all look like nice practical solutions to the indifferent weather we 'enjoy' in UK-waters. Very unfortunate that the economics of constructing motorsailers prevent most builders from having a serious go. Since Westerly's attempts are almost all twenty years old now, these are temptingly affordable, and their deficiencies must be pretty well-known.

Please share your impressions of them...

Since nobody else seems to want to answer your question as they all seem to be going into philosophical rants about motor cycles versus Range Rovers, here goes.
We had a bilge keel Riviera for 9 years, mostly based on the West Coast of Scotland but latterly in Brittany. We bought her primarily because there wasn't the claustrophobic feel on going below. We could sit in comfort having a glass of wine looking out on an anchorage or marina. Ours still had the helmsman's seat and it was possible to sail from there, although with an autopilot an inside steering position isn't required. However, motoring through the Caledonian Canal in the rain was definitely more comfortable.
We had the aft heads converted to use a holding tank so used them while in marinas etc. No feeling of constriction there, although I wouldn't have wanted to use the shower there. The main heads are a good size and we showered there regularly.
The boat sailed very acceptably. The pilot house didn't really have any more windage than a full spray hood (we fitted a small pram-hood over the hatch) and the prop was only noticeable for the noise it made while rotating under sail. The bilge keels meant she wasn't quite as close winded as a fin keeler, but the hull is the same as the Seahawk.
One thing to be aware of is that the pilot house acts as a greenhouse - the boat became very warm at times in summer (not that that seems to be much of a problem this year!)
One thing about the Riviera (I can't comment on the others) is thatthere is a strong demand for them. I had half a dozen phone calls within 2 hours of putting the boat up on the Westerly Owners web site.
Whatever you choose, good luck.

 

[Tranona]

Whatever you choose, good luck.

I don't think the OP has any intention of buying such a boat - indeed any boat. He is just a Troll - a high class one that does raise some interesting issues and seems also to enjoy being the centre of attention.

All in good humour of course.

 

[Ubergeekian]

If you really want to know why almost everyone who could have comfort and warmth at sea in midwinter, nevertheless buys a shallow-cockpit affair that SWMBOs almost universally hate...well, don't ask me!! I'm dead-set on that Range-Rover comfort!

That's a different question, I think. Those who plan to get most of their fun afloat in marinas put up with the exposed, shallow cockpit for the sake of the not-quite standing room not-quite double berths underneath. Those who plan to do more sailing at night probably tend towards a deeper, snugger cockpit. That was certainly an important factor in my choice: Jumblie's cockpit is quite small and narrow (she has two pointy ends) but a very snug place to be in a night time blow. OK, not quite as snug, perhaps, as the centrally heated deckhouse of a Fisher 38, but it still feels quite nice!