westerly 25 or westerly pageant or mirage 28

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tg1973

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please could you more experanced sailers advise me as to which i should start of my sailing fun with for my family of 4, i have very little experance of sailing but am learning, just done comp crew and am now do day skipper in jan.the boats are:

1: westerly pageant 1974 @ £8.000 in good con, new wireing and all the electrical toys you would want and a well maintained engine 10hp MD1b.

2: westerly 25 1966 @ £6.000 in used con needs tlc but all ready to go sailing present owners have had it for 25 years and like's it but are getting a bigger boat to retire to the med in, not many electrical bits and vage on what has been replaced or when etc.

3: mirage 28 1979 mk2 bukh 10hp has some electrical toy's and is quite tidy.

4: snapdragon 27 1971 @£8,500 got a very good 20 hp bukh looks taty and could do with some tlc owners have had the boat for 20 years and are buying a bigger newer one for retirement.

please which would you recomend and is there any that i should steer clear of !
 
Im not in the best position to advise having never sailed any of the above yachts; but for what its worth:

The pageant is a solid little boat but at £8k you could almost buy a centaur (its 26 ft sister).
The westerly 25's I believe were triple keeled and didnt sail that well. At any rate one of the sailing monthlys did a review of westerlys and £6K seems to be more than twice what they are worth.
£8.5 for an old snapdragon needing some work seems an awful lot too.

Mirage seems best to me but how much is it??

You have not said much about what/where you intend to use the boat.
With the weather going the way it is I would advocate the largest boat you can afford. Think about keel configuration - are you more interested in sailing performance or drying out ability. Have you thought about mooring arrangements?

Some boats will have been kitted for short handed sailing -furling sails, lines led to cockpit etc. Others (like mine) are set for racing and require a strong crew to handle well. Changing the latter to the former can be expensive.

With your family on board safety has to be of paramount importance. See what safety gear any prospective yacht comes with as it can be expensive in relation to the cost of a starter boat.

The above will vary from boat to boat even if there are of the same type.

All the boats you list seem a bit over priced -but thats just my opinion.
If I was you -have a good search of yachts for sale online - boatshed, yacht world.com etc. get a feel for prices. narrow it down to a few, then do some viewing. Dont buy without a survey from a suitably qualified individual. Some yachts may have a recent survey which will save you the cost.

Uh.. what else.. yes, think about where the boat is too. Are you and your family really up to that long delivery trip? If not make sure the fact that you may need to have it hauled by road is reflected in the price (when comparing it to a local boat, say).

Its always hard to give advice. Nobody actually needs a yacht. It is therefore, by its very nature, an affair of the heart. You have to like the look of it.

Go and see lots. You'll know when you have found the right one.
 
Westerly25/Pageant or Mirage

As already mentioned you haven't quoted a price for the Mirage but subject to this comparing favourably with the others it would get my vote. I have had one for two years and would recommend it. Decent size cockpit, plenty of space and headroom down below, and sails well. Mine is bilge keel. Previous boat was 25' and the extra few feet does make a difference.
 
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Hi
For a boat of that age I reckon the state of the engine should be your main concern. A reliable engine is a must for a boat of any age. It will cost a lot of money to fix or replace an engine and you may not get much of your money back should you sell it on. You can buy a lot of rigging etc. for the cost of a new engine.
 
I've got a Pageant. Great little boat. But I paid significantly less than 8K, and she has much later engine (Penta 2001). For a family of four I'd look for a well maintained Centaur (I've owned one). Obviously it'll cost you more, but they do hold their value. The Centaur just feels a lot more solid and seaworthy than the Pageant. In particular, the cockpit is deeper and just feels a lot more secure. There isn't a great deal more cabin space than the Pageant, but on a small boat a bit more room make a much bigger difference (if you see what I mean).
 
Hi
I have a Pageant and wish I had begged, borrowed, etc enough to get a Centaur - it's just the size - a Pageant is a brilliant little sailer. I would be wary of buying either though, if they still have their original engine, as those old Volvos will be coming to the end of their lives by now. I think £8k is way over for a Pageant with its original engine.
good luck
 
You need to go & see them. You also need to think about how & where you will use your boat. You have already have said a family of 4, I had a W25 for many years with young kids, but as they grew up their bunks became unsuitable as they are too close to the cabin roof to sit up in. Don't believe that a W25 can't sail, they were designed as cruiser/ racers & have a slippy hull shape. they are NOT triple keelers, they have aerofoil twin keels with a long deep skeg. They can sail very well, but the interiors are dated & lack storage space. The Pageant will give you more headroom, but is only 23' overall.

Snapdragon's have loads of room, but a W25 will sail circles round them - I know I have done it (really annoyed my mate). The Mirage is much more modern than the others & will have much more space & storage than the others, but will not be as strongly built - that is not necessarily a disadvantage as it will be lighter & therefore probably better in light winds.

Go & see them & imaging living on them as well as sailing them. Look at the gear, hull, spars & general condition carefully, repairs can be very expensive. If possible, have the engine started & run for you. Make a low offer subject to survey & get a local surveyor to give you a valuation. Good luck.
 
I would most definitely go for the Mirage 28. Cracking good boat with excellent heavy weather performance and it's very rare indeed to find osmosis in a Thames Marine boat.

The Snapdragon is ok but is a predessor to the Mirage and is a far less competent sailor.
 
The Mirage is the pick of the bunch here - I did some work for Ridgeway before they folded.
I am not sure what Searush means when he says they are not as strongly built - I would refute theat. They are heavy tubs, which, after all, seem to have survived so far for 30 years.......and there are still just as many as there were then.

The Westerly 25 isn't a particularly good sailer and not particularly roomy either. The Pageant may struggle with a family of 4 on board for the 2 week annual holiday.

Best of luck
 
As a Mirage 28 owner, I might be biased, but it's a cracking little yacht. Mine was built by my dad, from a kit, but you could go to war in her. Certainly not the quickest yacht out there, but solidly built and comfortable for 4. We used to go for a month's holiday in her right up until myself and my sister were into our early teens.

We've got a petter AC2M in ours, which did suffer a fractured exhaust water injection manifold when we tried to get the exhaust off when we were removing the propshaft to install a new bearing, but it was a 30 year old engine, and engines can be replaced.

Only other thing to watch with the Mirage is the windows. because they are so long, dark and in one piece, I've found that the expansion and contraction with heating and cooling is enough to break the seal over time and they can leak a little (why is it always rainwater rather than seawater that's the problem). That being said, taking them off every few years and re-sealing them seems to prevent it, and little foibles like that are to be expected on any yacht of that age.

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