Watermaker, which one?

[Guest]

We are doing the ARC this year, the start of a 3 year cruise and want to install a 12 volt watermaker. Does anyone have any advice as to which one and what accessories are most useful, reliability and spares etc.

 

[Guest]

Andrew Bray fitted a Schenker for Firefly's ARC and talks about its use and other gear aboard Firefly in the March Yachting World. But you've probably read this Norma since you are clearly immersed in this project. We had plans to have a watermaker but have decided against it for the time being - partly because of the complexity (and striving for the KISS principle) but also because the list of other things to do is so long. Have you got Beth Leanard's book 'The Voyager's Handbook'? If not it's definately worth getting I think - although if you are daunted by the prospect of what you are about to embark on now, reading her gives you a whole lot more to think about! Her bit about watermakers was enough to make me pause though.

We have signed up for the rally Antigua run by Blue Water Rallies which leaves Gibralter at the end of October. Like you and Cynthia we are also in the process of letting the house, preparing the boat, disposing of business as well as installing SSB and getting onto an SSB course. By the way, why did you go for a whip antenna instead of an insulated backstay?

This Livaboard Forum has been a lttle dissappointing so far, partly I think because so many subjects are dealt with on the others. But I will try to contribute more in the coming months - although I must overcome my fear of raising subjects that have been aired time and time again!

Good luck.

Peter Bringloe (Brighton)

 

[Guest]

KISS

Yes Peter I have read Beth Leonard's book, I think it is probably the best one on the subject. We really want a watermaker as we have lugged 25litre bottles around the med before and it is extremely hard work. Water can also be of dubious quality in many places but even we are thinking twice because of the cost, although Spectra have a new small one which is under £3000. We didn't go for the insulated backstay as ours is split and adjustable and husband preferred to have the antenna rather than weak link in rigging. Why did you decide on Rally Antigua rather than ARC? We haven't signed up for anything yet. Wish you luck with the SSB course, husband said it was the most difficult thing he had done since he qualified as an ATC. How far do you intend to take KISS. We have lots of electronics but also have set the boat up to be able to do without if necessary, will you be taking a sextant?

 

[Guest]

Re: KISS

Yes Peter I have read Beth Leonard's book, I think it is probably the best one on the subject. We really want a watermaker as we have lugged 25litre bottles around the med before and it is extremely hard work. Water can also be of dubious quality in many places but even we are thinking twice because of the cost, although Spectra have a new small one which is under £3000. We didn't go for the insulated backstay as ours is split and adjustable and husband preferred to have the antenna rather than weak link in rigging. Why did you decide on Rally Antigua rather than ARC? We haven't signed up for anything yet. Wish you luck with the SSB course, husband said it was the most difficult thing he had done since he qualified as an ATC. How far do you intend to take KISS. We have lots of electronics but also have set the boat up to be able to do without if necessary, will you be taking a sextant?

Years ago we went to the Trade Winds Rally semina and were impressed by the organisers Tony Dement and Peter Seymour. This has now become Blue Water Rallies (web site yachtrallies.co.uk (or maybe .com). It leaves from Gibralter rather than the Canaries and is smaller than the ARC with no racing element. I think there were more than 200 boats in last year's ARC. Closing date for rally antigua was 31st March but I am sure they are flexible. As for the SSB course - still debating whether I should do it or my wife. From what you say maybe she should go! (too expensive for us both to do it). KISS is not name of boat but stands for Keep It Simple Stupid). Our plans currently after Antigua and the Caribean are the Intra Coastal to the Chesapeak - nothing after that. We have a sextant but don't know how to use it yet!

 

[Guest]

Re: KISS

Hi again. I actually meant how far are you taking the keeping is simple on your boat. Our route is going to be very similar to yours, have you checked out medical insurance for USA/Canada? Very expensive, I think we will go with the Pantaenius Insurance, all other health insurances quote about £6000 for two of us.

 

[Boatman]

Re: KISS

Dudley

One note on the SSB, if norseman connectors are used it isn't a weak link if anything its stronger than the rigging it's connecting. Anyway sounds like it's all go at the moment, wish I was at the same point.

Enjoy

 

[Guest]

Re: KISS

Sorry Norma. You must think that I'm both simple and stupid! Actually I'd just been reading about a boat called Kiss Curl (YM June 1994 Blue Water Letter). As far as keeping it simple on our boat - not really. Have all the usual things including pressurised water (with no manual alternative at the moment). Am about to install radar and a new wind instrument along with goal post and solar panels. As for medical insurance, we have made no arrangements yet. The boat is insured with Pantaneus and we plan to stay with them. By the way, which wind vane did you choose. Ours is a Windpilot, which I have yet to fit.

Regards Peter

 

[Guest]

Re: KISS

Thanks for that advice. I think I prefer an insulated backstay and, from what I've read in these forums it is the best way to go. I assume that its best to mount the bottom insulator as high as possible. Mast is 16m so should be able to be quite high. The boat is steel so I am hoping that the hull can be the ground plane, although there is about 3 inches of foam insulation all over.

 

[Boatman]

Kiss & SSB

Dudley,

The key factor if I remember my numbers correctly is that the active (radio active) portion of the backstay must be at least 23feet. Also remember that the connection from just above the insulator to the ATU is also active and part of the antenna length.

As for you ground plane, the hull will be fantastic, I wish I had the same. the insulation won't make any difference at all.

One of the best sites with regard to installation info etc (if a bit American) is the Icome.com web site you will find a great booklet on instalation, operation, ground planes etc. I would print it out it's well worth it.

PS what radio are you installing?

 

[Gerry]

Re: KISS

We have a KISS (!) which seems appropriate in view of your previous conversation. We are really delighted with it.

 

[Guest]

Windvane

We have also decided on a Windpilot (plus) as we like the idea of emergency rudder but we haven't ordered it yet, although it has all been discussed with manufacturer. The serious boat stuff will start once we leave the house in early May. We are also fitting straps for our series drogue on the stern, as we will mostly be sailing shorthanded. What heavy weather decisions have you made?

 

[Guest]

Re: Windvane

Yes, the Windpilot plus looks very good, if a little more cpmplex (and a little more money). We have no experience of wind vanes as yet - should be interesting! As for heavy weather, we have made no specific preparations such as drogues or parachutes. The boat is a double headsail sloop with two roller furling headsails. The inner one is very blade like and furled a bit will probably be about storm jib size. Fully battened main has 3 reefs and I have just fitted an rcb (recirculating balls) track system which should make the single line reefing easy! We haven't sailed this boat in anger at all yet, but it should heave to very effectively and it's something we plan to practice. Because our experience with this boat is limited, as is our experience of long distance sailing (our longest passage together was Brest to La Coruna), I think that apart from essentials it will pay to wait until we've done a few miles rather than try to do everything before we go. Having said that I think we may shell out on what Doyle Sails call a UPS (Utility Power Sail) on a Facnor furler with a vectron luff.

This afternoon I asked our local electronics people to quote for the SSB and radar and also for the new Echopilot forward looking echo sounder. As far as the echo sounder is concerned, they succeeded in talking me out of it, saying that their experience is that it doesn't work!

 

[Andrew_Bray]

Windvanes

Having sailed for many years with windvanes (Hasler, Navik, Hydrovane) I was a firm believer that nothing else would do for serious cruising. That is until recently. Firefly has had a Hydrovane fitted since she was launched and never once has it been used (it came from Dash originally). To date it has only been used as a grab rail when boarding from the dinghy. The downside is its vulnerabilty, especially when berthed stern to and all that weight in the wrong place.

I've nothing against it and have no reason to believe that it would steer her anything other than brilliantly. But my view has been changed by my own and several friends' experience with modern autopilots. One has just completed a 12-year circumnavigation and he removed his vane gear as it was never used. He keeps it down below, well buried, in case he does lose the pilot but thinks this unlikely as he carries all the spares he needs to re-build the pilot and has ample solar power in case of power failure. The same applies to many other long distance cruisers I have met.

Anyone have any views on this?

 

[Guest]

Re: Windvanes

At the moment we only have a below deck autopilot but as we plan to sail with only two crew, I would hate to have to steer for days. We sailed up to IOM last summer and ran into the rain storm that did lots of damage in Wales. Standing my watch sheltering behind the sprayhood, in the freezing rain (it was so hard I could barely see the front of the boat) and with the huge waves I thought, nothing could be worse than this, then I glanced at the wheel and thought, oh yes it could, if the autopilot failed. That's my thoughts and of course there is the power issue, if you have lots going spare I suppose it is not a problem. You had a generator on Firefly.on our boat there is no room.

 

[Abaker]

Re: Windvanes

Lightning strikes sometimes fry electronics.

 

[rallyveteran]

Re: Windvanes

"You had a generator on Firefly.on our boat there is no room."

I don't think he did (see YW March 2002 for 'Power Problems')

We've just circumnavigated with an Autohelm 7000 and no generator but had a 160A alternator and 690Ah battery bank. It steered almost all the way unless we wanted some fun.

We also had a hydrovane but only used that when the pilot failed. Otherwise it was an expensive cleat.

Next time I'd take a spare ram for the pilot and take (a little) more care with the wiring - as that was what let us down a couple of times.

For power generation, towed generators are highly recommended especially if you are worried about the power draw of a pilot, because they produce power when you need it most - on passage!

Rally Veteran

 

[Guest]

POWER

We don't have such a large battery bank as you but we do have a autohelm 7000 and a towed generator (converts to wind on arrival) and a couple of solar panels. You don't say how many crew you took. What sort of spares did you take along and which ones did you need, what didn't you take that you wished you had? Our boat is only 40ft, we don't have masses of room, so we have to be choosy.

 

[rallyveteran]

Re: POWER

40ft is plenty for a couple with visiting crew. We always had 4 on board for the oceans, but plenty circumnavigate 2 up with no difficulty - just a bit less sleep.

Spares we got more of as time went by included - a second outboard motor (they never failed at the same time), a second laptop (ditto), toilet pumps and the rubber parts from other pumps especially those having constant use, such as freshwater and fridge cooling.

What wouldn't I take again - a sextant, half our books and music tapes as we never got round to reading them or listening to them and the weatherfax

rallyveteran