Water in cylinder....diagnosis after slow cranking

DrGonzoMIA

DrGonzoMIA

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Thankyou for all help thus far with slow crank issue. Now investigation has led me to remove the injectors. I wanted to stick a camera down into the cylinders to have a look. But as soon as I whipped the 2nd injector off it became apparent the cylinder is full of what appears to be water.
Before I start flipping out....what's my next move please ? I've worked on classic cars in the past so I'm relatively mechanically minded. Or is it call the mechanic and cough up time? Cheers.
 

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DrGonzoMIA said:
Thankyou for all help thus far with slow crank issue. Now investigation has led me to remove the injectors. I wanted to stick a camera down into the cylinders to have a look. But as soon as I whipped the 2nd injector off it became apparent the cylinder is full of what appears to be water.
Before I start flipping out....what's my next move please ? I've worked on classic cars in the past so I'm relatively mechanically minded. Or is it call the mechanic and cough up time? Cheers.
Click to expand...
Tell peeps what engin you have , also is there water in the oil , taste the water is it salty , has your coolant level gone down.
 
Engine is a Leyland 6/98 5.7l. Also known as Thornycroft 345. Boat is a sea boat that's been converted into a house boat and now resides on the canal. Water looks clear and tasted it to make sure not diesel. Coolant system is through raw water wet exhaust. Polar / Bowman exchanger. Haven't gone any further yet but appears to be on the one cylinder. Unsure how this happened. Ran it a month back and no probs. Last few weeks has been slow cranking. Becoming worse and worse. Went the electrics route with no joy and ended up here...cheers
I can only check on dipstick at moment but cant see any sign of water mixing in the sump. Cheers
 
Just bought a little oil pump to syphon out the cylinder. But the plot thickens...and worry increases. Everytime I syphon out the cylinder. It ruddy fulls back up ?! Wtf.
Just too rocker cover off and nothing appears amiss in there. And oil lying about looks nice and black. Not milky. Any ideas folks ? Cheers
 
syphoning back from the exhaust elbow via an open exhaust valve?

is the boat sitting low in the water?
 
Mmm possibly. Boat doesn't appear to be any lower than normal exhaust outlet is just below water line and always has been. It has a vetus waterlock and anti syphon loop at end of exchanger. They water I'm pumping out looks pretty clean. Is there any chance that the water which gets pumped around the calorifier would he getting into the cylinder ? The raw water cooling is controlled by a pump, on a pulley at the base of the engine. The standard water pump looks to feed water back and forth from the calorifier / water heater
 
I think it's sea water / canal water cooled as has inlet under boat, which then runs through polar / Bowman heat exchanger, mixes exhaust with sea water and out the exit. Where the standard water pump is - as its a Leyland engine that's been marinised- there are two pipes which run into the head. I assume that the standard engine pump system just passes hot water around the calorifier to heat up the water inside. This I would think runs though the veins in the cylinder head. Which makes me think that system is leaking. And not sea water ? Hope that makes sense?
 
Difficult to make out as its a busy area. But top circle is where a standard engine water pump is fitted. This looks to push hot water from engine around calorifier to heat water when engine on. Bottom circle is a marinished sea water / raw water pump. Both systems seem to have a connection to the heat exchanger.
 

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is there a coolant expansion tank…..that’ll answer for sure but it seems likely…..normal.

Just thought….if its been cranking slow…..maybe you filled up the water lock / syphon loop as it didn’t start and push the water out
 
There are a fair few odd things on this boat. Wiring and plumbing. I bought it around 5 months ago and keep finding bodges. The calorifier system does not have any kind of expansion vessel. I don't even know hot you would fill the water up for that heating system ? Obviously the water in the calorifier is pumped in from fresh water tank by pump.
I am vary wary of taking anything off the wet exhaust system incase it caused a leak I cant stop. As straight to canal on outlet. Could do with draining it all really.
Either way I think it's a head off job at least ?
 
I recall an old raw water volvo where there was corrosion next to the head gasket allowing water from cooling channels into the cylinder. Might explain why one cylinder only is affected?
 
So far emptied 2 buckets of water out of the cylinder. And it's still filling up....got to be from exhaust?! Never seen anything like it
 
Hand turn it over to close the exhaust valve .Then ck the levels / flow and report back .
Is there a valve on the anti siphon water lock ? = stuck allowing siphon?
 
Can't see any valves on the syphon loop. It's a bit of a pain really as there isn't a solid valve like a check to close the system off. Going to have to retro fit something so I can have more control. Need to drain it all down next and as you say crank it by hand.
Reading another forum there is another possibility of me being a muppet / newbie. As the engine was previously cranking slow and failing to start (for another unknown reaso) It may have been filling the system up with canal water from the inlet. But without the exhaust running to fire out the water, the pressure wasn't enough to clear it all so it backed up. That would explain why it became increasingly hard to crank. Mmmm. I finally drained that cylinder anyway. About 2 and a half buckets of water later ! Put some wd40 in all of the cylinders now and will leave them open to air. Fingers, toes and bollocks crossed that it's not done too much damage if that is the scenario...
 
im sure that’s what I said re prolonged cranking ???

Stick a bung in the exhaust if you’re worried but as it’s stopped….as long as the loop is higher that the water level….pull the elbow off. You could still have water in the wrong places that could go into other cylinders when you turn over So you should be able to clear anything sitting in the exhaust manifold. Really need to get the thing running to generate a bit of heat to dry stuff out.

If you’re worried….shut the Seacock intake when cranking. The impeller will be in water as with the Seacock shut….it won’t be able to pull the water through so should stay cool enough for a short time. If you can….stick a well charged battery close to the starter with really short cables to get her spinning quick.
 
You did ! F**k me....I feel like a numpty but I'm really hoping that's the case. Need some new gaskets and injector sealing washers now so gives me time to get it dried and lubed up. Will aim for that diagnosis before ripping anything else to bits.
 
DrGonzoMIA said:
Just bought a little oil pump to syphon out the cylinder. But the plot thickens...and worry increases. Everytime I syphon out the cylinder. It ruddy fulls back up ?! Wtf.
Just too rocker cover off and nothing appears amiss in there. And oil lying about looks nice and black. Not milky. Any ideas folks ? Cheers
Click to expand...

DO you have steel cylinder liners. Are there brass drain cocks in the block near that cylinder. There are some Volvo engines with that combination and it leads to a hole being bored through the liner wall opposite the drain plug but hidden by the the piston. Is the sump also full? When this happens on the Volvo engine there is a vague shadow on the liner wall above the piston on the drain cock side when at BDC
 
A quick question of possible daftness....
Say I am wanting to turn over by hand. On the gearbox side, is obviously the gear box boxed to the prob. On pulley side, I have alternator, sea water pump and fresh water / heating system pump. There's not really anywhere for me to get a spanner on and turn it ?!
 
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