Wake Wars

[Mike_02]

Don't worry i'm not going to start another moan about this ongoing subject.

All i wish to ask is if you have read the above named atricle in Yatching Monthly..what do you think.

Does the views of the Motorboater reflect your views as other Motorboaters or is he alone in his views...???

I have my thoughts but i would like to know what you all think first....?

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Hi Mike,

Not read it but this is obviously an emotive subject. Where I am concerned, I do try my best to minimise wake because where we are based, at Porthmadog, there are a lot of "live aboards" in the season and I am always mindful of this. I would have to say that any right minded motor boater should use common sense in harbour / restricted areas.

The only problem I encounter is at spring tides, where the outflow down the harbour is a good 3mph. To make way up the harbour at walking speed (3mph) against this outflow, I have to do 6mph water speed and unfortunately my planing hull kicks up a horrid wake at this speed. I do get shouted at sometimes (by dinghy sailors, rather than live aboards) but I don't mean any harm chaps...honest!

At the end of the game, the King and the Pawn go back in the same box.

 

[Guest]

I read it. Did you read the version printed in MBY August issue of the same event?

As the journalist present from the motorboating side, I was surprised by the spin YM put in that article. Actually, I wasn't surprised...I was wearied and saddened. YM's anti-motoboat stance is well-known, and it's popular with their readers. Personally, I think it's devisive and unhelpful...if selling more magazines is more important than trying to bring harmony to the water, then I want no part of it.

I'd like to hear what you thought of the piece, though.

 

[tr7v8]

Wholeheartedly agree, I nearly brought YM to see what their view was but speed read it in the newsagent.
If that is the level of "Sun" type drivel they deliver then is it no suprise that we have the comments we do.
It was an extremely bigotted bit of writing, especially since in MBY it pointed out that the major issue whilst the swop over was running was a raggie under motor.
The comments they made were certainly not helpful or informative at all.
Maybe the YM "journalist" would like to offer his view!

Jim
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[Bergman]

My thoughts on reading the YM article were that the gentleman with the power boat did not understand what it is like to drive a sailing boat.

From othe posts it would seem that this article was perhaps less than objective so maybe I am doing him an injustice. However it is clear from some of the correspondance that there is a lack of understanding of each others problems. What bothers me more is that there seems to be a lack of willingness to try to learn and an even greater lack of simple good manners and tolerance.

Thats my starter for 10!

 

[Mike_02]

Thanks for your reply. I wasn't aware that MBY had printed a simliar article but i'll try to read it.

But as to my views..well...i think that rather than helping the issue it has at best been a complete waste of time

When i heard that they had written the article i hoped that it would have been useful and not what they printed.

In short my first reaction was to feel that the Raggie did understand a fair bit about the motorboat and slow speed handling but portraid a boring image of the whole thing.

The motorboater on the yacht..well this is where it gets interesting...again my first reaction was to think 'what an ignorant fool' etc etc..!

In hindsight and after seeing your replys maybe only a few of his comments have been printed....!

But as a whole i found it very unuseful and left me with the feeling of 'how could he not understand why boats have to tack'

Come on YM ....lets have some of your views on this.....if you are going to tackle an issues such as this then for all our sakes at least get it right..!!!

 

[Guest]

I think the whole YM feature did the motorboater a terrible injustice...the Editor of YM, who was on the Moody with us, seemed impressed by his abilities and said she found it hard to believe that he hadn't sailed before. Sadly this didn't come out in the article (wouldn't have made good copy). It was interesting, though, that the only two examples of bad manners and intolerance (not to mention sheer reckless stupidity) experienced during the day both came from sailboat skippers. I did wonder whether, perhaps, sailing should put its own house in order before pointing the finger at everyone else?

 

[miket]

Kim?

Curiously quiet?
I think a comment from your colleague at YM might be appropriate?

 

[Rob_Webb]

As a yachtie, I was also a bit disappointed with the quality of the article and the conclusions drawn. Without knowing of any inbuilt prejudices I did get a sense of injustice to the motorboat cause.

In a sense, I wish they had chosen two (dare I say?) younger couples, or at least people who sounded more enthusiastic and open-minded about getting this cross-over experience much earlier in their boating careers. Just from the Bios of both sets of participants, I got the feeling that their minds were made up from the outset (probably many years ago). They were never going to inspire any reader to positively consider the other side.

Whilst we are on the subject, I do have once specific question / gripe. Is it true that some motorboats are virtually unsteerable at speeds much below about 5 kts? If this is so, then surely it is wrong to justify excessive speed in a confined area on grounds of hull design - these boats should avoid these areas altogether? More to the point, isn't this a fundamentally poor design by the builders? As you can see, I have no experience of motorboats and only know what I have observed from a distance about their handling. I will always respect the need for these boats to maneouvre differently at low speeds, when lining up for a berth for instance - but the steerage argument does seem a bit over-used at times?

After all, I would hardly get a warm response from the Police if I drove a high-powered sportscar through an urban area at 70mph and used the excuse that it was because of 'handling issues' because my engine won't run comfortably at low speeds - the answer would be to avoid the area altogether or not buy that car!

Thanks
Rob.

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Hi Rob,

Just to clarify the "unsteerable" bit. Its actually a poor excuse for motor boaters to use this tack, I should know, I am one. Planing hulls handle well when on the plane and handle poorly when in the displacement mode. They still steer, just badly, thats all. But that does not mean they become uncontrollable.

The down side of the planing hull is the wash (wake) at any speed below planing, and quite honestly my boat leaves little wash at all at 40kts. But don't worry, I am not about to advocate this speed at harbour. Good sailing!
DAVE

At the end of the game, the King and the Pawn go back in the same box.

 

[Guest]

I take your point about the age of the people involved, but the primary purpose was to give each couple (and the readers of the two magazines) an insight into the joys/problems associated with each other's chosen means of boating. We weren't trying to convert anyone to the "other side".

On the subject of slow-speed manoeuvrability, motorboats don't have the benefit of a keel to give directional stability, and something like the Princess 45 in question is a big, slab-sided boat that can suffer from a lot of windage. This makes it tricky to manoeuvre at slow speeds when the wind is blowing hard. It's not impossible, especially with twin engines and a bow-thruster, just a bit tricky at times. Just a little more speed makes life easier and safer for all.

What the motorboater in the article was trying to get across (I think) was that getting stuck behind a sailboat chugging along a channel at 2 or 3 knots can be irksome when the sailboat could be going at 5 knots and making the motorboater's life a bit easier. He wasn't advocating going too fast, just hoping that sailors would understand his problems (just as he tries to understand a sailor's problems and limitations).

Given the questions you've raised, and the opinions you've expressed, it would appear that this exercise was not as useful as it should have been. Looks like we must try harder.

 

[Guest]

As Dave says power boats are obvously easier to steer at speed, however at lows speeds i.e. 1- 5 knots say,
there is precious little water crossing what are if fact very small rudders compared to a sailing yacht.
What I do when say going into locks at very slow speed, is forget about the helm, leave it amidships
and steer using each engine alternately. See my other comments on "Trader 545" thread.


"The Med is calling me"