Wake from larger boats... non issue or safety concern?

[thecommander]

I would be interested to hear how you think our First 235 will fair against the wake from larger boats (cargo ships, ferries, harbour master/police boats etc) in the Solent? I've watched a few videos on YouTube and the effects on small, low freeboard sailing boats can be quite shocking and seemingly dangerous, particularly if beam on. Not at all reassuring for SWMBO, who is used to 38ft+ sailing boats to which wake has less of an effect.

From our previous motorboat career, we could easily mitigate the effects of wake by reducing our speed and turning the bow into the oncoming wake, but on a small sailing boat that's not practical or safe.

 

[prv]

If the boat couldn't cope with ship or mobo wash, it would be dangerously unseaworthy in the face of ordinary waves. Which I'm sure it isn't. So wash is not dangerous per se, but it can be inconvenient.

Slowing down isn't really relevant, but you can usually turn into it if you want to reduce the roll. If the reason you can't turn is that you're already hard on the wind close-hauled, the press of wind in the sails will generally stop you rolling much anyway. Dead downwind can be a problem, especially in lighter wind, as the roll or the nudge off-course can trigger a gybe. In that case I'll usually steer up a bit before the wash hits, to keep the wind firmly on the side I want it.

Potential gybes apart, I tend to find wash at sea a bit of a non-issue really. The boat ought to be stowed properly for normal waves; if a motorboat going past is able to throw my stuff around, that stuff was not correctly stowed in the first place. It's different at an anchorage or among moorings, of course, where you shouldn't need to be battened down for sea.

My friend's five year old nephew loved it - he'd swing from the grab handle shouting "MASSIVE WAVES!"

Pete

 

[dom]

I once saw a biggish mobo taking a serious roll just of Whitecliff Bay (East IoW) when the Fastcat ferry whapped past just inside the Princess West cardinal mark at around 40kts. From what I could see somebody was hurt on board and vessel called Coastguard then set off almost immediately. It was the speed of the wake, not so much its height that was the issue.

I understand the IOW Council has since asked the Fastcats to either slow down, or use the Nab route (in summer?) in order to prevent dangerous washes coming in onto the beaches.

 

[sarabande]

we could easily mitigate the effects of wake by reducing our speed and turning the bow into the oncoming wake, but on a small sailing boat that's not practical or safe.

If you can't do that for a mobo wake, then are you saying you can't do that for an ordinary big wave ? That's basic sailing seamanship.

 

[vyv_cox]

If you can't do that for a mobo wake, then are you saying you can't do that for an ordinary big wave ? That's basic sailing seamanship.

I'm not sure whether that is true. I have taken some serious pounding from the wash of other boats, the worst being a fishing boat of maybe 15 metres length. He was quite close to us, going quickly, so I suspect something to do with the steepness of the wash compared with a natural wave. I recall that deaths occurred when fast cat ferries first began to appear, wash penetrating into some anchorages (around Ipswich I think?) seemed to be amplified to massive proportions.

 

[dylanwinter]

I have never been anywhere like the Solent for arses in big mobos

not generally dangerous but bloody inconsiderate

 

[C08]

When we first came to the Solent we were appalled at fast boats particularly ribs and surprisingly the worst of all the military ribs with the uniformed arses speeding so close to small boats coming in and out of Portsmouth. Not just inconsiderate but dangerous as they do not give any clearance even when they have lots of water and space to do that. 15ft is not unusual! I am not referring to the actual entrance which is narrow for the volume of traffic. The large vessels are generally ok.

 

[Porthandbuoy]

In the Clyde we have two foot passenger ferries that ply between Greenock and Dunoon, the Allie Cat and the Argyll Flyer. Both appear to have been cunningly designed to produce a far steeper wash than you would expect from such small vessels. I usually take them on the bow if I can and always tell my crew to hang on.

Comparing the wash of another vessel to 'a big sea' doesn't tell the whole story. In bad weather you are continually braced for the motion, whereas on a fine day you can be relaxed, drink in hand, and the next second the boat is rolling gunwales under.

 

[RichardS]

My friend's five year old nephew loved it - he'd swing from the grab handle shouting "MASSIVE WAVES!"
Pete

I've got 60-odd years on your nephew but that's exactly what I do. Great fun ..... unless you're at anchor with the table set for Dinner (with the crew all in Red Sea Rig of course!)

Richard

 

[Spyro]

It might be uncomfortable, you might get wet, you might spill your tea, women and children might fear for their lives but the boat will handle it fine.

 

[NormanB]

When we first came to the Solent we were appalled at fast boats particularly ribs and surprisingly the worst of all the military ribs with the uniformed arses speeding so close to small boats coming in and out of Portsmouth. Not just inconsiderate but dangerous as they do not give any clearance even when they have lots of water and space to do that. 15ft is not unusual! I am not referring to the actual entrance which is narrow for the volume of traffic. The large vessels are generally ok.

I am surprised you specifically mention military ribs.
In my recent experience there are very few military ribs out on the Solent these days. Perhaps because we have so few military now.
There are however lots of ribs that have a para military look about them (including the police).

 

[JumbleDuck]

I have never been anywhere like the Solent for arses in big mobos

not generally dangerous but bloody inconsiderate

You haven't been thought the Kyles of Bute, then? Most motorboats there, it has to be said, are courteous and friendly, but there are a significant minority who ignore the speed limit and good manners to blast through the Burnt Isles narrow as fast, and as near to other vessels, as they can.

In the Clyde we have two foot passenger ferries that ply between Greenock and Dunoon, the Allie Cat and the Argyll Flyer.

Does anyone else remember Highland Seabird, the fast catamaran which Western Ferries ran on the Clyde in the late 70s? She kicked up a huge wash which travelled a long way. In retrospect they were quite along way ahead of their time with her.

 

[prv]

Great fun ..... unless you're at anchor with the table set for Dinner (with the crew all in Red Sea Rig of course!)

Yep, exactly, wash in an anchorage is very different to wash at sea. You might also be balancing a pan of hot fat in the galley, or handling some caustic chemical in the engine bay, or whatever.

Pete

 

[prv]

I am surprised you specifically mention military ribs.
In my recent experience there are very few military ribs out on the Solent these days. Perhaps because we have so few military now.
There are however lots of ribs that have a para military look about them (including the police).

I was going to say, I suspect it's the Police rather than the Military, but he did say Portsmouth so perhaps a slightly higher chance of Naval activity?

I've been approached by a Royal Marine in a RIB off Studland before - he very politely asked if I could move to make space for them to chuck a load of stuff out the back of a Hercules into the sea. Quite spectacular it was to watch from just outside the drop zone

Pete

 

[thecommander]

We've had one or two hairy moments on our motorboat...

Passing over to Cowes last year in what already was choppy waters, a Targa 48 doing semi displacement speeds passed within 15ft of us and whipped up a 3-4ft wash.

The most annoying thing was that the helmsman, who looked to be a teenage boy, was laughing as he passed us, blissfully unaware of what seemed like a bit of fun for him was a real safety issue for us. No exaggeration, it was probably the scariest moment SWMBO and I have had onboard.

As a motoboat owner we were very careful with our wash, particularly a semi displacement speeds in and around anchorages and smaller boats. On plane our boat barely created a wash, but we always gave smaller boats plenty of room when overtaking them.

 

[C08]

I am surprised you specifically mention military ribs.
In my recent experience there are very few military ribs out on the Solent these days. Perhaps because we have so few military now.
There are however lots of ribs that have a para military look about them (including the police).

Perhaps I am incorrect in my assumption that a black rib filled with heavy guys, all dressed in black with things that look like weapons in waterproof cases slung across their backs roaring around as if they own the place with total disregard for small ( things like Drascombes, Wayfarers etc full of adults and kids) boats and other disregard for the conventions and courtesies of the seas, are military or border force. Perhaps stealth outings of fishermen fishing for sea bass?

 

[l'escargot]

Perhaps I am incorrect in my assumption that a black rib filled with heavy guys, all dressed in black with things that look like weapons in waterproof cases slung across their backs roaring around as if they own the place with total disregard for small ( things like Drascombes, Wayfarers etc full of adults and kids) boats and other disregard for the conventions and courtesies of the seas, are military or border force. Perhaps stealth outings of fishermen fishing for sea bass?

I don't know that Border Force are routinely armed, MOD Plod generally are though.

 

[NormanB]

Perhaps I am incorrect in my assumption that a black rib filled with heavy guys, all dressed in black with things that look like weapons in waterproof cases slung across their backs roaring around as if they own the place with total disregard for small ( things like Drascombes, Wayfarers etc full of adults and kids) boats and other disregard for the conventions and courtesies of the seas, are military or border force. Perhaps stealth outings of fishermen fishing for sea bass?

If it was flying a black flag with white squiggly writing you got off lightly.

 

[C08]

Pete[/QUOTE]

I've been approached by a Royal Marine in a RIB off Studland before - he very politely asked if I could move to make space for them to chuck a load of stuff out the back of a Hercules into the sea. Quite spectacular it was to watch from just outside the drop zone

I have watched the exercises at Studland with awe-lowering a large rib from a helicopter sometimes with 4-6 crew and sometimes they abseil down on multiple ropes. The whole lowering and departure seems to take only perhaps 1 minute!

 

[prv]

Perhaps I am incorrect in my assumption that a black rib filled with heavy guys, all dressed in black with things that look like weapons in waterproof cases slung across their backs roaring around as if they own the place with total disregard for small ( things like Drascombes, Wayfarers etc full of adults and kids) boats and other disregard for the conventions and courtesies of the seas, are military or border force.

Certainly my first thought on seeing such behaviour would be that it's a bunch of coppers having fun playing with their new "don't we look 'ard" toys. I guess in the absence of information we each fall back on our prejudices

Pete