Volvos V Caterpillar Engines

[kashurst]

given a choice of the same model of boat with say volvo 73/74p s and the equivalent caterpillar engines which would be the better choice, assuming similar hours and service records

 

[volvopaul]

given a choice of the same model of boat with say volvo 73/74p s and the equivalent caterpillar engines which would be the better choice, assuming similar hours and service records

The 73 wasnt a great engine it still had some issues, the 74 and 75 is a great motor, and by then volvo had sorted the piston overheat and quality issues.

Im not a cat fan because they have all there own design and tech they dont like to share with anyone, eg there fuel systems can only be serviced by them, they dont send info out for pump and injector settings etc.

They also dont like discounting parts which is wrong to a dealer or company that spends thousands a year on there product, no loyalty at all.

There dealer network in the uk is all owned and operated by Finning, so you cant play one dealer against another for a better deal, god knows how uk boat builders get on with them, what I will say about Caterpillar is they do build an engine you can service quite easy, they for example hand oil, fuel filters, and fit engine oil pump out systems on most of there engines, but parts prices are scary, for example ive priced a job today an impeller for a C15 is £350 plus vat!!!!, but they dont go fitting filters like volvo do, just plain and simple engines.

I went to look at a C15 install in a T60 last week, I must say sealine did a really nice job.

Id still stick with volvos though as the dealer network is by far one of the best out there.

 

[kashurst]

thanks for that, a neighbour in the marina has a pair of cats that run well until recently when he had a lot of trouble getting CAT to sort it. And bits were eye watering expensive. I will stick with the green anchors for now.

 

[Assassin]

Personally i prefer the Cats, but its down to personal preference, and the fact they have so many good aftermarket spares available. I have never found issues with obtaining information, usually the guys attending will let you copy the information from their own technical data.

 

[penfold]

What about Cummins? Or do they simply not have any market penetration in the UK? How do Yanmar or Steyr fit in?

Presumably the likes of Deutz and MAN only figure for much bigger boats and very deep pockets.

 

[Assassin]

I like Cummins and also Detroit Diesel units, but the OP has a choice of Cats or VP's.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Personally, having had 4 boats in a row with Cat engines, I'm now a fan of Cat. I've never had a moment's problem with any of them (touching wood furiously here!) except for 1 alternator failure. I can understand VP's comments but he is looking at Cat/Finnings from a business point of view not so much the customer point of view. I have always bought my Cat parts direct from Finnings in the UK and shipped them to the Med. I must say that I've found their spares dept to be very efficient. There's one other thing about Cat that I like although I have no personal experience of this. They seem to stand by their products better than Volvo in terms of warranty problems and even in terms of dealing with problems outside the warranty period.
Certainly in the industrial engine field in which I have some experience through my business, Cat is viewed as a quality product and Volvo is not considered at all

 

[DAKA]

My previous neighbour in the motor trade had a pair of cats in a Princess 380 (1994 ish 305s I think) and never had a problem with them, he serviced himself and didnt complain about parts cost so I assume he found a reasonable source.

 

[jfm]

There's one other thing about Cat that I like although I have no personal experience of this. They seem to stand by their products better than Volvo in terms of warranty problems and even in terms of dealing with problems outside the warranty period.

Yup. I've had a few minor things to be put right on my Cats and the local authorised dealer hasn't hesitated to deal with them under warranty.

 

[MapisM]

Personally, having had 4 boats in a row with Cat engines, I'm now a fan of Cat.

I've actually had just one Cat-engined boat (and two VP-engined), but according to mine and also other boaters' experiences, I must second that 100%.
To be honest, I wouldn't even consider VP as a competitor of Cat. Possibly MTU, but that's another story.

 

[penfold]

I like Cummins and also Detroit Diesel units, but the OP has a choice of Cats or VP's.

Are DD not just rebadged MANs these days? I thought it all went a bit wonky under Penske management.

 

[Latestarter1]

Are DD not just rebadged MANs these days? I thought it all went a bit wonky under Penske management.

Not quite. Just to clarify DD no longer market marine diesel engines, the Series 60 marine is now sold under the MTU banner.

However i think your confusion probably arises over the DDC/MTU 2000 Series which were part of replacement strategy for the Detroit strokers. The DDC/MTU engines are actually Mercedes engines marinised by MTU. The engines in question have thair roots in the 1970's when MAN and Mercedes made joint investment in engine machining facilities and had similar architecture.

Detroit now pretty much dead, replaced by new range of Mercedes Benz IL6 engines designed in Germany but assembled in the U.S. and just to confuse the heck out of you branded Detroit Diesel.

In terms of high Hp engines MTU are very sweet, however way short of life to overhaul, typically an MTU 4000 Series is 12,500 hrs life to overhaul CAT 3500 Series is 24,000 hrs, which is why MTU works well in pleasure/military craft, but few applications in commercial vessels. DDC/MTU tie up failed to stem loss of market which once used DD high horsepower strokers. CAT 3500/Cummins K territory now.

 

[OAF]

I have had a couple of Volvos and now have a couple of Cats, having serviced and worked on both makes I can say that I prefer the Cats, I have found Finnings to be very helpful albeit there parts are a bit expensive but if you shop around then you will find cheaper alternatives for items like filters, impellers and bits like that.

Given two identical boats, one with Volvos and one with Cats in it, I would go for the one with Cats!

 

[volvopaul]

I have had a couple of Volvos and now have a couple of Cats, having serviced and worked on both makes I can say that I prefer the Cats, I have found Finnings to be very helpful albeit there parts are a bit expensive but if you shop around then you will find cheaper alternatives for items like filters, impellers and bits like that.

Given two identical boats, one with Volvos and one with Cats in it, I would go for the one with Cats!

Simon won't be saying that if the pressure pump or unit injectors fail, along with your next service interval which requires the valve clearances setting, all using cat only tools, I spoke to an owner last week, he said finnings wanted £100 travel from Poole to port Solent and that's before the engineers got out the van!, you can't touch unit injectors or pumps I'm told it's cat only.

 

[Latestarter1]

Going back to the original post, I know that certain 70 Series Volvos were good some not so good. Never bother remembering which were the good ones and which ones were less than good. If equivalent CAT motor was 3208 I would have to come down on the side of the Yellow engine.

However if one was comparing a good 70 Series with 3116/3126 it would have to be Volvo. Met with a bunch of CAT guys who are generally very loyal about their products and I asked them straight what were they thinking of when they did the 3126? 'Yep thats some kind of monkey motor, guys in engineering certainly had their heads screwed on backwards when they did that one'

 

[Imperial One]

Cat v Volvo?
No issue, it has to be the Cats every time.
The old Princess 45 often had them in the 3208 375hp version or the Volvo 370 hp. True they are a heavier engine but they are just so reliable and hassle free that you often hear them referred to as being "Africa proof". I think most JCB products had this engine fitted as standard.
The P45 with Cats always sold easier than the Volvo powered ones and often at a small premium.
Personally, I would go with the Cats given a choice but what do I know?

 

[OAF]

Simon won't be saying that if the pressure pump or unit injectors fail, along with your next service interval which requires the valve clearances setting, all using cat only tools, I spoke to an owner last week, he said finnings wanted £100 travel from Poole to port Solent and that's before the engineers got out the van!, you can't touch unit injectors or pumps I'm told it's cat only.

Paul you are right, my valve clearances need checking as the engines have just reached 500 hours and it is a cat recommendation at the time interval, so I will have to just bite the bullet and pay for it to be done, yes I appreciate that it is a specialist job requiring specialist tooling and as long as when you opt for a particular engine you do it with your eyes wide open and knowing that the engines will need to be dealer/expert looked after and that the parts aint cheap then that is fine.

Before I bought my current boat i did my home work and fully appreciated that the engines would need dealer/experts to look after certain bits like the fuel injection system, I can do the bog standard servicing though, I just hope that while I own the boat it doesn't require any expensive injectors, I have heard mine are 800 quid each!!

When I have the Volvos in my last boat I had to replace a gearbox and Volvo were quoting me 5K for one, I had it re-con'd by a company in Dover for about a grand, my point is that as engines get older there will always be someone other than a dealer that will be able to 'sort' them out, Fortunately I know an Ex Cat engineer if I get stuck with mine!

 

[volvopaul]

Simon, your engines also have one of the worst exhaust manifold and elbow design out there whereby sea water enters the cylinders via the exhaust valves, they also corrode away causing expensive engine failure.

I do like late starters comment about the design, maybe they designed many marine engines together!