Volvo Penta D4 DPH legs

[mikemcgregor]

I brought a new Cranchi Pelican 32 5 years ago from a Cranchi dealer in Spain fitted with Volvo Penta D4 225hp diesels with DPH legs. I have had to replace 3 steering rams and steering pump due to the ram seals breaking down. Have had no joy from complaining to boat dealer and local Volvo agents. I am very sure that the steering rams are "not fit for purpose".

Any forumnite had success in getting some form of compensation from Volvo? So far this design fault has cost me the best part of £3500 in replacemant parts alone!

 

[wakeup]

There was a Volvo modification to the ram seals a few years ago and an additional rubber boot to cover each ram shaft. I had this problem originally on a new 2006 boat, rams were changed under warranty and new boots fitted, touch wood no problems since. Have your latest rams been fitted with the boots?

 

[mikemcgregor]

There was a Volvo modification to the ram seals a few years ago and an additional rubber boot to cover each ram shaft. I had this problem originally on a new 2006 boat, rams were changed under warranty and new boots fitted, touch wood no problems since. Have your latest rams been fitted with the boots?

Yes I found out about modification and retro fitted them. Problem seems to be that although they stop barnacles growing there is a build up of marine growth which still damages the seals. I understand that Volvo have now fitted a "scraper" which may improve things. My moan is that surley Volvo have realised the system is a basic design fault and really should be contacting customers and offering some sort of help with the expense of making the boat safe for use!

 

[MikeJ42]

I brought a new Cranchi Pelican 32 5 years ago from a Cranchi dealer in Spain fitted with Volvo Penta D4 225hp diesels with DPH legs. I have had to replace 3 steering rams and steering pump due to the ram seals breaking down. Have had no joy from complaining to boat dealer and local Volvo agents. I am very sure that the steering rams are "not fit for purpose".

Any forumnite had success in getting some form of compensation from Volvo? So far this design fault has cost me the best part of £3500 in replacemant parts alone!

The rams failed on the Sealine I bought new in 2008. They fitted new rams with boots. I sold the boat, so cant say if the boots worked, but can defo say the unprotected rams are gonna fail as soon a a bit of growth sticks to the piston (if thats what the exposed bit is called).

 

[DAKA]

I helped another boat with the same problem get home.
It had the new modified ram with gaiter which failed with in a year.

This is a serious fault which can result in total loss of steering but there is a bit of DAKA patented safety kit available

Anyone with these legs need to keep a fairy liquid bottle with a mcdonalds straw forced onto the spout, fill with hydraulic oil and keep it at the side of the helm.

If your steering fails while you are at sea simply add oil as you motor along, adding oil to the top up found on top of the steering wheel, every 5 miles or so should do it depending on conditions so best carry at least 2 L of oil, if you run out then engine oil/cooking oil will do at a push.

edit

if you attempt to top up on the move (not really recommended, best done stationary) you will need to shut down your engine that powers the power steering in case the pressure blows oil out of the steering wheel during top up.

 

[mikemcgregor]

I helped another boat with the same problem get home.
It had the new modified ram with gaiter which failed with in a year.

This is a serious fault which can result in total loss of steering but there is a bit of DAKA patented safety kit available

Anyone with these legs need to keep a fairy liquid bottle with a mcdonalds straw forced onto the spout, fill with hydraulic oil and keep it at the side of the helm.

If your steering fails while you are at sea simply add oil as you motor along, adding oil to the top up found on top of the steering wheel, every 5 miles or so should do it depending on conditions so best carry at least 2 L of oil, if you run out then engine oil/cooking oil will do at a push.

Thanks DAKA,

A very good idea. I do always carry spare oil and will now copy your fairy liquid bottle and straw solution.

Still hope some poor soul with same problem can let me know if Volvo Penta ever compensated them for what is clearly a design fault.

 

[Geoffs]

DAKA

If your steering fails while you are at sea simply add oil as you motor along, adding oil to the top up found on top of the steering wheel, every 5 miles or so should do it depending on conditions so best carry at least 2 L of oil, if you run out then engine oil/cooking oil will do at a push.

Don't think so, Pete.

If I understand the system correctly (which may not be the case) the rams are part of the high pressure hydraulic system driven by engine mounted pump.

The little filler near the helm is the primary hydraulic system driven by the pump on the wheel when you turn it. Equivalent to mechanical connection from the steering wheel on a car.

Think you'll find the high pressure reservoir somewhere in the engine bay, mine is. This is the one that will need topping up if rams fail.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

What a stupid, stupid system this is on DPH drives. Who in their right mind would put steering rams under water. Who ever designed this at Volvo needs shooting at least!

I dry berth mine so never had any trouble.

 

[DAKA]

very clear recollection of events Geoffs.........

Dodgy steering in that a lot of steering wheel turns only moved drives a small amount until the wheel didnt move the legs at all, total loss of steering .

I looked over stern to see lots of oil.

on turning the wheel you could see oil floating from the ram fixed to the leg.

I added loads of oil to top of steering wheel, steering was working.
I put into full lock and added loads more.

I gave the skipper my fairy bottle and some spare oil.

off he went for a lift out and another new ram fitted, fairy bottle got him 10-15 miles to safety (cant be bothered to get charts out).
edit
Just checked, I accompanied him for 9-10 miles and we then went our separate ways leaving them to continue another 5-7 miles .
I am happy to agree I didnt actually remove the pressurised cap off while the port engine was running, you could be right in that when the power steering is on the oil could be pressurised which would prevent top up while the power steering engine is running, I have amended the procedure for topping up on the move, well spotted Geoffs

 

[mikemcgregor]

Still hoping to hear if anyone has managed to get Volvo Penta to admit their liability for what is clearly a design fault with the steering rams.

 

[DAKA]

Still hoping to hear if anyone has managed to get Volvo Penta to admit their liability for what is clearly a design fault with the steering rams.

I dont think it happens like that in the marine industry.
Its just a cottage industry really and deals are done on a nod and a wink if you kick up enough fuss.

Even when Volvo Penta supply you with a new ram they will not have admitted fault as such.

 

[mikemcgregor]

I dont think it happens like that in the marine industry.
Its just a cottage industry really and deals are done on a nod and a wink if you kick up enough fuss.

Even when Volvo Penta supply you with a new ram they will not have admitted fault as such.

Ok. But if I had brought a Volvo car anywhere in Europe which was then found to have fault in the steering would not Volvo have to make a general recall and fix the problem? So why not for a boat/engine/outdrive etc? Surely the same consumer rights apply

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Still hoping to hear if anyone has managed to get Volvo Penta to admit their liability for what is clearly a design fault with the steering rams.

The rams and steering pump were replaced on mine (D6/DPH). No contribution from VP.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[mikemcgregor]

The rams and steering pump were replaced on mine (D6/DPH). No contribution from VP.

Cheers
Jimmy

It seems as if VP dont really care about their customers. My dealings so far with the Spanish VP dealers has just been met with a shrug of their shoulders and complete indifference.

 

[madabouttheboat]

Ok. But if I had brought a Volvo car anywhere in Europe which was then found to have fault in the steering would not Volvo have to make a general recall and fix the problem? So why not for a boat/engine/outdrive etc? Surely the same consumer rights apply

I am sure the same consumer rights do apply, it's just that no one has put them to the test.

 

[DAKA]

Ok. But if I had brought a Volvo car anywhere in Europe which was then found to have fault in the steering would not Volvo have to make a general recall and fix the problem? So why not for a boat/engine/outdrive etc? Surely the same consumer rights apply

Theoretically yes, practically no.

If a cars steering fails you are most likely looking at significant damage including personal injuries and a record is made of it.
Several cars fail and the manufacturer has to issue a recall, (volvo are one of the best at this).

If a boat fails chances are not a lot of damage done, there are so few incidents no one manages to get a string together, alright I respect your attempt here and I wish you luck with it but chances are Volvo Penta have already got a set of DPH2 stickers made up and will simply relaunch the same cr ap suggesting it is re designed leaving the second hand boats to rot away in marinas .

A token gesture recall may be issued but in a cottage industry they are unpredictable and highly unlikely to reach more than 20% of the boats.
as owners service themselves, only service every other year, some for sale out of use, some mechanics are not part of the net work, other VP mechanics dont bother to read the recalls or forget them etc etc


TIP for DPH/DPH2 owners

Always berth stern too.
before you cast off , get someone to turn the wheel in full lock both directions as you study the rams, you are looking for air bubbles which are in fact blobs of oil rising to the surface, you should be able to save the cost of a pump especially if you keep topping up with oil as above.

 

[mikemcgregor]

Theoretically yes, practically no.

If a cars steering fails you are most likely looking at significant damage including personal injuries and a record is made of it.
Several cars fail and the manufacturer has to issue a recall, (volvo are one of the best at this).

If a boat fails chances are not a lot of damage done, there are so few incidents no one manages to get a string together, alright I respect your attempt here and I wish you luck with it but chances are Volvo Penta have already got a set of DPH2 stickers made up and will simply relaunch the same cr ap suggesting it is re designed leaving the second hand boats to rot away in marinas .

A token gesture recall may be issued but in a cottage industry they are unpredictable and highly unlikely to reach more than 20% of the boats.
as owners service themselves, only service every other year, some for sale out of use, some mechanics are not part of the net work, other VP mechanics dont bother to read the recalls or forget them etc etc


TIP for DPH/DPH2 owners

Always berth stern too.
before you cast off , get someone to turn the wheel in full lock both directions as you study the rams, you are looking for air bubbles which are in fact blobs of oil rising to the surface.

Thanks for the tip DAKA

I take your point re car steering....but last year my engineer said he was testing a customers boat after fixing an unrelated fault and was doing about 30 knots when the starboard ram failed causing the steering to fully lock over..resulting in him nearly being thrown overboard!

 

[DAKA]

Thanks for the tip DAKA

I take your point re car steering....but last year my engineer said he was testing a customers boat after fixing an unrelated fault and was doing about 30 knots when the starboard ram failed causing the steering to fully lock over..resulting in him nearly being thrown overboard!

Two points here

One guy falling off a boat will not help, there need to be several.

This is interesting and getting far worse, I had thought the oil should be lost gradually, which means the first symptoms are turning the wheel twice as far as normal and then snaking at which point most skippers would slow down (and add oil with the fairy bottle & mcdonalds straw), perhaps he had it on auto helm loosing oil while the auto helm motor was running flat out ???

Note any with DPH/DPH2 drives should refrain from using auto helms.

 

[mikemcgregor]

Two points here

One guy falling off a boat will not help, there need to be several.

This is interesting and getting far worse, I had thought the oil should be lost gradually, which means the first symptoms are turning the wheel twice as far as normal and then snaking at which point most skippers would slow down (and add oil with the fairy bottle & mcdonalds straw), perhaps he had it on auto helm loosing oil while the auto helm motor was running flat out ???

Note any with DPH/DPH2 drives should refrain from using auto helms.

Re Auto helm...not sure about exact circumatances... will ask him next time I am out.

I have written to the President of VP- a Mr Goran Gummeson- outlining the sad saga of events and await his reply' But am not holding my breath!!!

 

[AdeOlly]

if you attempt to top up on the move (not really recommended, best done stationary) you will need to shut down your engine that powers the power steering in case the pressure blows oil out of the steering wheel during top up.

Seen that happen, though not on a VP setup and not on my boat, when an 'engineer' was tinkering trying to fix a loss of steering problem. My everlasting vision is hydraulic oil dripping off his head, face and glasses and the abject look of shock on his face. Lucky he was wearing glasses as they saved his eyes....

 

[segaerta]

Same story, had one ram replaced last year. Nothing from VP.

Noticed last weekend that my steering actually took lots of turns before effect (6-7 turns, no response then suddenly boat started turning). Will check both rams again this weekend, following symptoms DAKA described in this thead.