Volvo D12 800 versus Man 800

[pan]

Am looking at Sseeker Man 50's, engines choice is either Volvo D12 800 or Man 800, anyone with experience or knowledge of performance/reliability/fuel efficiency with these..

Thanks Pan....

 

[Bandit]

Are you looking at used or new?

The D12 is now reworked and called the D13 for current models and is available for liesure and commercial use. Liesure ratings are 800 and 900 hp

See http://www.volvopenta.com/VOLVOPENT...BOARD/ENGINERANGE/Pages/p_diesel_inboard.aspx

An advantage is there are far more Volvo Penta Dealers than MAN dealers and good parts availability.

I dont know the D12 or D13 intimately but a pretty reliable engine i understand.

 

[pan]

Hi Bandit... it's used 2006/7 at that time it was D12, the new current Man 53 primarily uses Man 800's, but that may just be commercial decision?

 

[Nick_H]

I have D12 715 hp. There have been no real issues in 900 running hours over 8 years, just a stuck turbo that could be freed up by hand. Engineers always tell me that not much goes wrong with them. They are known to seep a bit of oil from the sump, mine does, but hasn't got any worse in the years I've owned it. I don't know if the slightly more stressed 800 hp is more problematic.

 

[admillington]

Am looking at Sseeker Man 50's, engines choice is either Volvo D12 800 or Man 800, anyone with experience or knowledge of performance/reliability/fuel efficiency with these..

Thanks Pan....

I believe the D12 800 are only 775 hp. I have had D12 800s and 715s Both sets were faultless and personally I would go Volvo for the mass of dealers worldwide.

 

[pan]

I know that the D12 715's have a decent reputation & assume the 800's are slightly tricked up versions (actually 775hp), specs show Man's 100kg lighter & actual 800hp with flatter torque curves... so assume performance is better, but experience gives better info than specs!! Reliablity is a big issue... imo

 

[jfm]

I had 2 boats with D12s - the 715 version for 800 hrs and the 800 (=775hp) with 250hrs. No problems at all. I still know both boats and they have had no problems with their new owners either (1000hrs and 500hrs respectively). I liked the D12 and would recommend them

Around the time you're looking at they changed the valve gear design. Both have yokes that are hit by cams and open two vlaves. On earlier D12s the yokes rode up and down posts, and on later D12s they float with no post. Both are fine but the former are more sensitive to needing the vlave clearances adjusted. That said cases of problems seem rare. The engine is made well on a very highly robotised line

I don't know the MANs but would choose the volvo out of these two aotbe

 

[pan]

Thanks for the info... it seems that the D12's have a good reputation in both formats, would appreciate anyone's experience with Man's, which now appear to be in favour with Sseeker (maybe just commercial preference).

By the way, excellent technical breakdown JFM on the uprated 800's...

It has been mentioned to me by a few brokers that the Man's provide a smoother output... perhaps that might be wishful thinking on their part! I am viewing boats soon with the 2 options, so should get my own view on that aspect. Will post what I find...

 

[jfm]

Thanks for the info... it seems that the D12's have a good reputation in both formats, would appreciate anyone's experience with Man's, which now appear to be in favour with Sseeker (maybe just commercial preference).

By the way, excellent technical breakdown JFM on the uprated 800's...

It has been mentioned to me by a few brokers that the Man's provide a smoother output... perhaps that might be wishful thinking on their part! I am viewing boats soon with the 2 options, so should get my own view on that aspect. Will post what I find...

Pan, an important thing to check on mahattan50s from the 2006-ish era is the effectiveness of the exh silencers. A lot of the boats had very noisy installations. If you were snoozing on your foredeck having an evening G+T with eyes shout you always knew a hattan 50 (or 75/82) was entering port because of the awful booming exhaust noise. Must be hell for those on board. But I dont know if this applied to the Mans or Volvos or both, and anyway after a while they seemed to fix it. So I'd suggest you check you're happy with the noise levels. In contrast, Fairline and Princess flybridges of same era were much much quieter

 

[pan]

Pan, an important thing to check on mahattan50s from the 2006-ish era is the effectiveness of the exh silencers. A lot of the boats had very noisy installations. If you were snoozing on your foredeck having an evening G+T with eyes shout you always knew a hattan 50 (or 75/82) was entering port because of the awful booming exhaust noise. Must be hell for those on board. But I dont know if this applied to the Mans or Volvos or both, and anyway after a while they seemed to fix it. So I'd suggest you check you're happy with the noise levels. In contrast, Fairline and Princess flybridges of same era were much much quieter

Thanks, there are several Sseekers in our marina including 50's, it is noticeable that they have rather boomy exhausts, so will check out if Man's are any different, think the brokers are referring to mechanical smoothness rather than noise...

It does appear that Volvo service is much more widespread, anyone any ideas of service costs Man v Volvo?

 

[Nick_H]

anyone any ideas of service costs Man v Volvo?

I have a list of parts for my D-12's from 2010 in front of me, total of 1,774 euro ex-VAT, including 450 euro for oil. Labour is two days.

 

[Latestarter1]

You will find MAN R6 800's both sweeter and quieter than the Volvo D12's. Performance may also be slightly better, not so mutch due to the greater power but the difference in weight, two MAN's are saving close to half a tonne over the D12's. However do not be seduced by these sweet motors they can bite! Oil drains are at 200 hour intervals service records are vital. Crankshaft has bearing area of a paperclip in comparison with Volvo D12.

Personally I would want a pre-purchase MAN dealer report.

 

[pan]

Thanks for the volvo service costings, about what I would expect... I like that the Man's are quieter & sweeter, on some other boats with D12's I have found they can be a bit harsh. Will certainly ensure service records are complete & would only buy a boat at £400-£500k with a pre-purchase engine report, but thanks for the advice. Seems the main problem with the Man's is availabilty of certed engineers....

 

[Bandit]

Just to throw another option in , This boat is in Guernsey, its a 2012 and its mint, I have no idea of the OP's budget but might be worth a look.

http://www.lovellyachts.com/search-...=pp286555&sm=3&is=All&cit=true&searchtype=buy

 

[aquatom]

If it helps we have just put a new crank shaft in a MAN 800 after the oil cooler gasket (would have thought an o-ring would have been better) let go and it dumped its oil in seconds.

On the plus side the new crank was a little over 1000€ which I thought wasn´t too bad.

We look after many boats with D12 715´s and 800´s and dont get much trouble from them.

 

[pan]

Sounds a little bit serious.. how many hours on the engine? Anything I should look out for in particular?

 

[volvopaul]

Listen to the replies, d12

 

[aquatom]

Sounds a little bit serious.. how many hours on the engine? Anything I should look out for in particular?

Not sure on the exact hours but is not alot, less than 500 I think.

There is not much warning the gasket just gets blown out and the oil pressure goes almost instantly.

 

[erik_plus8]

That seems to indicate high crankcase pressure => another root cause for the problem...? (high blow-by flow?)

A oil sump gasket should normally not have to take high pressures.

 

[jfm]

That seems to indicate high crankcase pressure => another root cause for the problem...? (high blow-by flow?)

A oil sump gasket should normally not have to take high pressures.

Aquatom said it was the oil cooler, not the sump. The oil cooler is pressurised in normal service