Virgo Voyager - Missing Rudder - help needed !

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dangerdaddy1

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I have recently acquired a Virgo Voyager 23 that requires a total refit due to being holed and sunk on a mooring in Bristol earlier this year. Unfortunately she lost her rudder at the same time so i'm after any assistance that you fine people can offer with regards to rudder dimensions or pictures of voyagers out of the water. I'm based in South Wales so if anyone has a boat out of the water over the winter that I could take some measurements of, it'd be much appreciated... Cheers !
 
Thanks Alahol2.... I've checked it out and that gives me a start but I could do with an up close look at the brackets that mounted the rudder. The brackets are missing on mine and I could do with measurements of how thick the replacement rudder needs to be.... Thanks again for the lead !
 
It sounds like the skeg is still intact but the rudder is gone. That ballance section under and forward of the rudder would be very susceeptible to damage. ie ripping the rudder off.
The ballance section will give a nicer feel with less load on the tiller but at the cost of damage susceptibility. I would say that you do not have to make a rudder identical to original as all bopat design is compromise. You might find that handling is OK with a simple non ballanced rudderr ie without the lower section that extends under the skeg.
An alternative might be to make a strong rudder without the ballance section then add the ballance secttion as a foam filled thinish GRP moulding. If you get it right this might give you the rudder handling you want but in the case of ground strike the damage would be limited to the frangible section so boat and basic rudder remains useable.
The rudder behind the skeg will essentially by the same thickness as the skeg. Taper from front to back. Yes you need a foil shape but the skeg is mostly part of that foil.
The section below (hanging out in the water) should be a foil shape. ie semicircular front to fattest part about 1/3 way from front to back followed by a taper to the trailing edge.
The size of the rudder again is a bit of a compromise. For the upper part of the rudder any increase in chord length (front to back) will give more rudder power but only with much greater tiller loads. So not much point. However any increase in the depth of the bottom part which is ballanced will give more rudder power with not more tiller loads but more strain on the bottom hinge.
Just to explain I like to race my little boat with a lot of shy spinnacker work ith boat on its beam ends. I incresed rudder power to give me much more control when heeled against viscious weather helm to avert round up (broach). This might not be a concern to you but most boats get weather helm when they heel and you can lose control. (roundup) Certainly an ubnballanced rudder can make helming hard work. Ballance is the ratio of rudder area (if any) that is forward of the rudder axis to the whole rudder area. So 15% of area forward of the axis will ballance out 15% aft of axis so you reducee rudder tiller load by 30%. This is becuase the part ahead of the axis will divert into the water flow and tend to want to divert even further (out of line). Rudder area aft of the axis when diverted from straight is pushed back to straight by the water flow. givesTiller load.
The bottom bracket will be dependant on what is left on the skeg I would think. Dinghy type pintles might be OK. Check a catalogue for ideas.
The rudder itself is I think best made witha ply or timber centre shaped for the taper to the trailing edge then with epoxy or polyester resin and many layers of fibreglass.
This glass should end up at least 6mm thick. While polyester resin does not stick to wood well in this case the GRP should be so thick that it is in effect a GRP rudder with wooden male mold left in. if you want a wooden rudder with just a protective layer of GRP 2mm thick then you must use epoxy to get the grip on the wood. Polyester being much cheaper and easier to handle than epoxy. Or you could make it just wood but that will require good solid non warping timber. good luck olewill
 
Hi William...

Thanks for all the advise in your reply. The skeg is still there for sure so I will use that as a guide for the rudder thickness as you suggest. These boats have a reputation for very little weather helm, and I guess that is down to the balancing section that protrudes underneath the skeg so I intend to make the replacement as near to the original as possible. Still undecided as to whether the rudder should be plywood or foam-cored. The skeg still has a stainless rod that is connected to the tiller bracket in the cockpit attached and it doesn't seem to be damaged so just the rudder and a couple of suitable brackets should do it.

Thanks again for your reply and the valuable advise.

Kind regards

Paul
 
A friend of mine had Virgo Voyager rudder break up after water ingress and possibly catching a rope in that notch by the skeg. The original was a bronze skep with SS tangs spot welded (or not). The new one, paid for by his insurance company, has SS stock and tangs and cost about £2500 IIRC.

August32012009.jpg
 
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Hello dangerdaddy1 (is there a 2?) I would reccomend you make the bottom ballanced section as a kind of attachment on the bottom so that it can be broken off without losing the whole rudder.
http://www.boatingcentral.com.au/rf2500-rudder-gudgeons-rudder-gudgeon/
Here is an example of what you might need for the pintle or that gudgeon. It will need to be bolted to a strong part of rudder like a wood or GRP section in foam. Make sure water can not get in via the bolt holes. good luck olewill
 
£2500 sounds pretty steep.... I'm assuming that was the skeg and the rudder ! The skeg on mine looks ok although I will check the mountings just in case.

I'm wondering if my rudder had similar problems to this one, and maybe that was why it fell off. I hope his didn't come away at sea !

Thanks for the picture Moodysabre...
 
Thanks John... Those pictures are a great help and i'll save them for reference if that doesn't cause any copyright or infringement issues for you.

Interestingly the rudder on picture yoyager-3 doesn't look original to me either unless the rudder for the Fin keel version is deliberately different to that of the Bilge keel model. Either way you assistance is much appreciated. I'm still hoping to find one out of the water somewhere that I can examine first hand but failing that the information on Yachtsnet has been invaluable to me already, and is a good part of the reason why I decided to undertake this project in the first place.

Kind regards

Paul
 
dangerdaddy1 said:
£2500 sounds pretty steep.... I'm assuming that was the skeg and the rudder ! The skeg on mine looks ok although I will check the mountings just in case.

I'm wondering if my rudder had similar problems to this one, and maybe that was why it fell off. I hope his didn't come away at sea !

Thanks for the picture Moodysabre...
Click to expand...

That was just for the rudder and stock - the skeg was fine.

He lost it in the creek where he keeps his boat. He had grandchildren on board. A nearby RIB saw there was a problem and came over and towed them a couple of miles to a boatyard where he was hauled out. All quite fortunate.
 
That is a lot of money for the rudder and stock - If I make a good job of my replacement rudder perhaps I feel a change of career coming on !

Glad to hear that your friend and his family were assisted by the crew of the RIB. I think one of the great things about boating is that the people you meet are generally eager to help you out if you're in a spot of bother or offer some friendly advice.

Maybe the lost art of conversation and that elusive sense of community that so many people long for isn't too far away after all... They just all need to buy a boat !

Thanks again for the picture MoodySabre.
 
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