nicknick109
New Member
I have to replace the headling in a confined place can anybody advise a glue (UPVA ?) or similar which does not give off toxic fumes please.
Thanks any help.
Thanks any help.
Vinyl headlining
- Thread starter nicknick109
- Start date
VicS
Well-Known Member
Onto wooden panels a water resistant PVA wood glue is fine. It's water based so no fumes.
However onto the grp I dont think you will find any alternative to solvent based glues. I have notice that the (tube of) Evostick Timebond I bought recently has a solvent that is (mostly) heptane rather than the toluene that was used previously. That is still hazarous but, from the figures for exposure limits that I have looked up is considerably less so than toluene.
The answer is good ventillation suplemented with an "Organic Vapours " mask. The suppliers of the vinyl should be able to advise you, supply the adhesive and the mask. To which end you will probably do no better than to contact Hawke House Marine in Gosport. (Google will find them for you)
However onto the grp I dont think you will find any alternative to solvent based glues. I have notice that the (tube of) Evostick Timebond I bought recently has a solvent that is (mostly) heptane rather than the toluene that was used previously. That is still hazarous but, from the figures for exposure limits that I have looked up is considerably less so than toluene.
The answer is good ventillation suplemented with an "Organic Vapours " mask. The suppliers of the vinyl should be able to advise you, supply the adhesive and the mask. To which end you will probably do no better than to contact Hawke House Marine in Gosport. (Google will find them for you)
Evadne
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure there is one, that works.
Assuming you can't glue it to a board and screw that in place, then for direct gluing I'd use Evo-stick painted onto the foam, and evostick or spray-on contact adhesive on the grp, a good mask for you, plus as much ventilation as possible, plus a mate (or wife) sitting outside to watch. I've tried cheaper glues, B&Q own-brands floor tile glue amongst others, and they weren't as effective. 3M and Marley was as nearly good as evo stick, though. I found the spray-on glue very good but prohibitively expensive used on an absorbant surface, like the foam backing.
Mostly things will be ok, but after hearing the odd horror story on here, this is not stuff to be inhaled for any length of time.
Assuming you can't glue it to a board and screw that in place, then for direct gluing I'd use Evo-stick painted onto the foam, and evostick or spray-on contact adhesive on the grp, a good mask for you, plus as much ventilation as possible, plus a mate (or wife) sitting outside to watch. I've tried cheaper glues, B&Q own-brands floor tile glue amongst others, and they weren't as effective. 3M and Marley was as nearly good as evo stick, though. I found the spray-on glue very good but prohibitively expensive used on an absorbant surface, like the foam backing.
Mostly things will be ok, but after hearing the odd horror story on here, this is not stuff to be inhaled for any length of time.
nicknick109
New Member
VicS and Evadne many thanks for help and advice
Bodach na mara
Well-Known Member
There have been numerous threads on this subject, and PBO had a feature on it (but I cannot remember the issue.) I have tried this job (and failed!) so let me try to tell you of some of the problems.
Number one is removing all of the old foam backing. This has gone all crumbly and actually sticks to anything it falls on. It must be completely removed. After that, the smears all over the floor and berths can be removed with cloths and meths. The hangover goes after a few hours.
Stick new foam to the back of the vinyl using contact adhesive such as evostick. I used spray-on upholstry adhesive, which worked quite well for this part of the job. This is the only easy bit, and should be done in the fresh air, when it is not raining. Or too windy.
Remove ALL TRACES of the old adhesive from the cabin roof. The article in PBO showed an angle grinder fitted with wire brush being used for this job. This is the really horrible bit and is the one that I missed. It is best to leave cleaning off the foam marks until this has been done.
Apply adhesive to the roof with a brush and to the foam-covered vinyl with a spray. This MUST be done on a dry day, with low humidity and with the surfaces absolutely dry. It is best not to breathe while doing this. Or use an air-fed mask. Or scuba gear. Now the hard bit. Bring the foam into contact with the roof. Get it positioned correctly. You only get one chance!
Within a month of completion, mine fell down in places, and has nearly all detached now. It is held up by the light fittings and various trim beadings. Local opinion is that this is because I did not get all the old adhesive off.
The minority view is that I was screwed whatever I did as the adhesive will not hold in the damp conditions that prevail in a boat. In the view of that person, the only way to hold up the lining is to fit fake deck beams screwed into the roof with carefully controlled length of screws.
As this is a common problem in Westerly boats, you may find advice or links on the westerly owners forum pages in Yahoo Groups. Sorry I do not have the exact link.
Number one is removing all of the old foam backing. This has gone all crumbly and actually sticks to anything it falls on. It must be completely removed. After that, the smears all over the floor and berths can be removed with cloths and meths. The hangover goes after a few hours.
Stick new foam to the back of the vinyl using contact adhesive such as evostick. I used spray-on upholstry adhesive, which worked quite well for this part of the job. This is the only easy bit, and should be done in the fresh air, when it is not raining. Or too windy.
Remove ALL TRACES of the old adhesive from the cabin roof. The article in PBO showed an angle grinder fitted with wire brush being used for this job. This is the really horrible bit and is the one that I missed. It is best to leave cleaning off the foam marks until this has been done.
Apply adhesive to the roof with a brush and to the foam-covered vinyl with a spray. This MUST be done on a dry day, with low humidity and with the surfaces absolutely dry. It is best not to breathe while doing this. Or use an air-fed mask. Or scuba gear. Now the hard bit. Bring the foam into contact with the roof. Get it positioned correctly. You only get one chance!
Within a month of completion, mine fell down in places, and has nearly all detached now. It is held up by the light fittings and various trim beadings. Local opinion is that this is because I did not get all the old adhesive off.
The minority view is that I was screwed whatever I did as the adhesive will not hold in the damp conditions that prevail in a boat. In the view of that person, the only way to hold up the lining is to fit fake deck beams screwed into the roof with carefully controlled length of screws.
As this is a common problem in Westerly boats, you may find advice or links on the westerly owners forum pages in Yahoo Groups. Sorry I do not have the exact link.
VicS
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I have tried this job (and failed!)
[/ QUOTE ] A few comments.
I used a liquid adhesive applied to the grp and a spray on adhesive applied to the foam backed vinyl. Both supplied by Hawke House.
I used foam backed vinyl and did not attempt to stick new foam to old vinyl as an earlier attempt to do a small piece like that was unsatisfactory (probably too much glue)
I agree removing all the old foam is a messy job. I did not find any satisfactory way of removing the old adhesive from the grp. Powerdriven tools tended to generate sufficient heat to soften it and smear it about. I scraped off what I could but eventually decided that what I could not get off with reasonable effort could stay there!
6 seasons later there is no sign of it becoming detached!
The trick I used to position it was to only spray a band along one edge, get that in position and then spray the back of the rest in a couple of wide bands and stick that down.
The "organic vapours" mask, again supplied by HH, was a complete success. Supplementing decent ventillation I could not even smell the adhesive solvent (toluene)
I must confess though that the main parts of the roof roof was done on ply panels this time round (originally stuck on to the grp) using PVA glue (also supplied by HH).
The ply panels are supported by screws (with matching button covers) and strips of velcro.
Ply panels are a good way of hiding a lot of wiring!
I have tried this job (and failed!)
[/ QUOTE ] A few comments.
I used a liquid adhesive applied to the grp and a spray on adhesive applied to the foam backed vinyl. Both supplied by Hawke House.
I used foam backed vinyl and did not attempt to stick new foam to old vinyl as an earlier attempt to do a small piece like that was unsatisfactory (probably too much glue)
I agree removing all the old foam is a messy job. I did not find any satisfactory way of removing the old adhesive from the grp. Powerdriven tools tended to generate sufficient heat to soften it and smear it about. I scraped off what I could but eventually decided that what I could not get off with reasonable effort could stay there!
6 seasons later there is no sign of it becoming detached!
The trick I used to position it was to only spray a band along one edge, get that in position and then spray the back of the rest in a couple of wide bands and stick that down.
The "organic vapours" mask, again supplied by HH, was a complete success. Supplementing decent ventillation I could not even smell the adhesive solvent (toluene)
I must confess though that the main parts of the roof roof was done on ply panels this time round (originally stuck on to the grp) using PVA glue (also supplied by HH).
The ply panels are supported by screws (with matching button covers) and strips of velcro.
Ply panels are a good way of hiding a lot of wiring!
nicknick109
New Member
To Kenjohnson
many thanks for taking the time to jot all that advice down.Like the idea of deck beams had not thought of that.
many thanks for taking the time to jot all that advice down.Like the idea of deck beams had not thought of that.
Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
Re attaching the vinyl clad plywood panels to the deckhead - I was having a browse round the Bighead on-line catalogue and saw a write up about these new poppit fasteners which look like they could be ideal for this purpose - and the panels are easily removable.
Have a look at :
http://www.bighead.co.uk/poppit/Resources/brochure.pdf
Have a look at :
http://www.bighead.co.uk/poppit/Resources/brochure.pdf