Vintage spinnaker pole(s)

[Shuggy]

Firstly, I am a spinnaker novice so be gentle!

We have a 1971 Nicholson 43 which we've had for just over 18 months now. This year we've flown the spinnaker about 15-20 times, mostly with just two adults on board (myself & my wife). We've taken it gently and have progressively got a bit bolder, albeit (before this weekend) with a self-imposed limit of 15 knots true wind. I should say that before June this year I'd never used a spinnaker on any kind of boat and bodged it all together using hints and tips from friends and from the internet.

The spinnaker pole is a telescopic Selden one, a previous owner having ditched the rather nice pair of classic ones at some point in the distant past. The trouble is that it bends like a banana under high load as we discovered in 20 knots of true at the weekend. I didn't get a decent shot of it but you can sort of see it in the attached image. The inboard end had slid down the mast track at this point, and we were just about to snuff it. The banana action is not helped by the fact that the downhaul is at a fixed point rather than on a bridle (is that the correct word?) because the pole is telescopic.

The Selden website does not recommend that the pole is used as a spinnaker pole at this level of extension so we clearly need to get something stiffer.

Firstly, I confess that I did not measure it but will do so soon. But in the meantime...

1. Does anyone have access to the dimensions of the 'factory fit' spinnaker poles for this type of boat, and...

2. Any tips on where I might pick up a second hand one of the appropriate length? I would prefer to get something period rather than a modern one. I'd go for a modern one as a last resort.

Thanks.

 

[lw395]

If you are using the pole single-ended, just move the uphaul and foreguy to the end of the pole where the guy goes.
The load on the pole will then be pure compression, no bending, provided the inboard end is free to pivot properly and you keep the pole clear of the forestay etc.

Things like spinnaker poles do crop up on eBay.
When you say a 'classic' pole do you mean wood or ali?
You might find the ends at a boat jumble and make a new spar.

Good Luck.

 

[mcframe]

We have a 1971 Nicholson 43 which we've had for just over 18 months now.

The trouble is that it bends like a banana under high load as we discovered in 20 knots of true at the weekend. I didn't get a decent shot of it but you can sort of see it in the attached image. The inboard end had slid down the mast track at this point, and we were just about to snuff it. The banana action is not helped by the fact that the downhaul is at a fixed point rather than on a bridle (is that the correct word?) because the pole is telescopic.

Nice boat - a friend has had a Nic 45 for >10 years, and I've not yet persuaded him to (a) buy a kite or (b) hoist it on ether of his two poles...

Downhaul (& uphaul) at the outboard end is probably a good plan - particularly with something like a parasail which generates more lift than a conventional symmetric - I've seen a bridle-mount pole flex/bend at the outboard end with one of them.

Can you stop the mast-end sliding down to keep the pole in compression?
(i.e. was that just a one-off, or does the mast track require some fettling?)

At least with a telescopic, you can try it at different (marked-up) lengths to get the right size for a fixed one - ICBW, but I'd guess that the "correct" length for a fixed one might depend on the foot measurement of the kite-in-use.

 

[penfold]

Spinny poles(on what is nominally an IOR design like this) are normally about equal to the Q measurement, which is the horizontal distance between the bottom end of the forestay and the front face of the mast.

 

[Shuggy]

If you are using the pole single-ended, just move the uphaul and foreguy to the end of the pole where the guy goes.
...
When you say a 'classic' pole do you mean wood or ali?
You might find the ends at a boat jumble and make a new spar.

That sounds sensible - but I need to work out how to attach them safely at the outboard end. Perhaps some kind of clamp.

I'm looking for an ali pole - she's a GRP boat, but I prefer the older anodised style (although I understand there's some weight in them!)

 

[Shuggy]

Downhaul (& uphaul) at the outboard end is probably a good plan - particularly with something like a parasail which generates more lift than a conventional symmetric - I've seen a bridle-mount pole flex/bend at the outboard end with one of them.

Can you stop the mast-end sliding down to keep the pole in compression?
(i.e. was that just a one-off, or does the mast track require some fettling?)

It's funny - it's not a parasail, just an enormous (to my eyes) spinnaker. The foot is 9.4 metres and it's always been fine until now, but 20 knots of wind generated the most fantastic forces and the sail surged upwards with enough oomph to lift the bows and bend the pole.

The mast-end slide was entirely my fault; I had undone the lines that hold the fitting in place in a fettling fit and had forgotten to do them back up again. Once it had slid down there was absolutely no way it was going back up again!

 

[Shuggy]

Spinny poles(on what is nominally an IOR design like this) are normally about equal to the Q measurement, which is the horizontal distance between the bottom end of the forestay and the front face of the mast.

I think you're right although they may be a touch longer. Seen here on a different Nic 43 - I can always make a comparison off the coachroof length.

 

[flaming]

Spinny poles(on what is nominally an IOR design like this) are normally about equal to the Q measurement, which is the horizontal distance between the bottom end of the forestay and the front face of the mast.

That's correct, although these days that measurement is known as J.

A 43 foot heavy displacement boat is way over the limit for using poles with bridles in my opinon. Your downhaul and uphaul need to go to the end of the pole. Whilst I understand the desire to have a vintage pole to match the boat, I wouldn't go that route myself. I have had the pleasure of flying a spinnaker on a Swan of similar size and vintage, and it took 2 of us to lift the inboard end of the pole onto the mast fitting, and then it had to be winched up into place with the pole topping lift.

If price is not a consideration, a nice new carbon pole is by far the best solution. When we take the pole off the Elan, I can pick it up with one hand.

 

[Shuggy]

If price is not a consideration

Oh how I wish that was true! How much more are carbon poles out of interest? I will have a nosey at prices tonight when I get home.

 

[Twister_Ken]

+1 for what Flaming said. Ali poles are OK if you've got a racing crew aboard to manhandle them, but if you're doing it on a Mom and Pop boat, you'll struggle.

Whatever you choose, I'd suggest some sort of padding where the pole meets the forestay, to protect both. A leather sleeve is sufficient.

One thing you might consider is mounting the pole permanently on the mast, so you only have to slide the heel down and lift the toe up for it to be in position.

Length = J.

 

[30boat]

That spinnaker is indeed huge.I shudder to think what it is like with 20 knots of wind behind it.

 

[jbweston]

I think you're doing really well handling the spinnaker with just the two of you in that wind strength.

 

[Shuggy]

I think you're doing really well handling the spinnaker with just the two of you in that wind strength.

Thanks - but don't be misled. That was a boys' weekend when we all agreed it would be fun to push things a bit... the family limit of 15 knots true stands!

 

[penfold]

Oh how I wish that was true! How much more are carbon poles out of interest? I will have a nosey at prices tonight when I get home.

Ready made poles will probably cause your cheque book to spontaneously combust out of selfpreservation, but it may be possible to get a length of CF tube and make up your own pole with some used pole end fittings without taking out a second mortgage. I would guess 4" tubing will come in around £200 per metre, but it's a couple of years since I looked at prices so best have a google; there are several UK vendors for this kind of thing and all but one had webshops when I was looking.

 

[Shuggy]

Ready made poles will probably cause your cheque book to spontaneously combust out of selfpreservation

Correct! I think plans B or C may be brought into action...