Viewing used boats - what to look for?

[Flyfloat]

Thanks to all those who have so graciously contributed to my posts thus far on buying my first boat

Yesterday we viewed a Fairline Phantom 50 in the UK and it seemed to be a really nice clean and good boat. Next week we are trekking across the Med to see 6 more boats.
When viewing the UK boat I did the following:

Looked hard at the gel coat and hull for knocks or scratches.
Inspected the teak.
checked the state of the covers.
reviewed the interior for wear and tear, cleanliness.
Looked in the engine room.
Checked the maintenance records.
Viewed all bills of sale including the original receipt.
Took lots of photos so I can tell them all apart.
All fairly superficial and cosmetic stuff.

What am I missing? For example when looking in the engine room what should I specifically look for (the last visit I could only check it had engines! ). Are there any telltale signs of issues? Should I be asking for all the engines, generators etc to be started up? Should I operate the passarelle? Are there other things to look for?

Or should I just decide if it looks like a boat I would want to own and leave everything else up to the surveyor at a later date?

 

[jrudge]

If they are in the water I would seek to understand what works and what does not. The majority of this can be done without moving it, only starting the engines / gen.

Try to understand the extras the boat has if the broker has not listed them for you. Some things are expensive ( water maker) some not ( large screen TVs).

Do the engines look serviced? Oil clean ish, air filter clean ish. Not definitive but gives you some idea of what is going on.

For reasons that escape me boats don't seem to have a stack of bills. Ask to see the recent bills. They will probably say, oh we don't have those, but ask anyway! My car has a service book and a stack of bills, no idea why a boat would be different!

 

[benjenbav]

If they are in the water I would seek to understand what works and what does not. The majority of this can be done without moving it, only starting the engines / gen.

Try to understand the extras the boat has if the broker has not listed them for you. Some things are expensive ( water maker) some not ( large screen TVs).

Do the engines look serviced? Oil clean ish, air filter clean ish. Not definitive but gives you some idea of what is going on.

For reasons that escape me boats don't seem to have a stack of bills. Ask to see the recent bills. They will probably say, oh we don't have those, but ask anyway! My car has a service book and a stack of bills, no idea why a boat would be different!

J - the disappearance of boat bills may have a connection with not wanting them around when one's better half is on the warpath about possible areas of unnecessary expenditure. Glad you don't suffer from this phenomenon.

 

[benjenbav]

Thanks to all those who have so graciously contributed to my posts thus far on buying my first boat

Yesterday we viewed a Fairline Phantom 50 in the UK and it seemed to be a really nice clean and good boat. Next week we are trekking across the Med to see 6 more boats.
When viewing the UK boat I did the following:

Looked hard at the gel coat and hull for knocks or scratches.
Inspected the teak.
checked the state of the covers.
reviewed the interior for wear and tear, cleanliness.
Looked in the engine room.
Checked the maintenance records.
Viewed all bills of sale including the original receipt.
Took lots of photos so I can tell them all apart.
All fairly superficial and cosmetic stuff.

What am I missing? For example when looking in the engine room what should I specifically look for (the last visit I could only check it had engines! ). Are there any telltale signs of issues? Should I be asking for all the engines, generators etc to be started up? Should I operate the passarelle? Are there other things to look for?

Or should I just decide if it looks like a boat I would want to own and leave everything else up to the surveyor at a later date?

My view is that the best thing you can do is look at how the spec of a particular boat might work for you. Then get a surveyor to look at the build and an engineer to check the engines.

Engines are doubly important because not only are they the biggest potential expenditure item but, if you have to replace one you often have to take the boat to bits to get the old one out and a new one in. (This may or may not be a big issue in the P50 - others will know.)

 

[gjgm]

Gel damage around a fixing usually suggested some movement in the grp lay up.. might be a few hundred quid to sort out, but not major in structural terms. Similary, boats like cars do get bumps,scratches and dents. Again, it is possible that there is a fracture in the grp underneath and you can't always tell until someone starts cutting back the damage. Anyway, most of the time, this is remedial work not a disaster. Re teak, check there is no springy-ness on any teak panels which might suggest water underneath. Again, fixable. Much of a survey you can do yourself- try every single switch,light,toggle,appliance. You may as well know what is not working! Expect engine bays to look like somewhere you want to go into, not change into your worst overalls.Then if you are not reasonably competent yourself, I would leave the engines and struture to specialists, but by then you should be down to a favourite boat.

 

[Tam Lin]

Popping in from the sailing side I would say, ask yourself if the boat looks like it has been looked after. Lots of boats are put up for sale in an untidy condition and you need to look through that impression to see if the boat is any good. So neat and tidy helps but has it just been tarted up for sale after a lifetime of neglect?
This is where paperwork helps, bills and receipts show that money has been spent to keep the boat up to scratch. What I've said is a bit contradictory I know but that is how things are! If you are not an expert then rely on your surveyor and engineer to stop you buying a boat which is going to cost you a lot of money in the future. Of course, there is always a risk! Good luck!

 

[rafiki_]

With engines/gearboxes, you should be looking at the oil levels, and oil and water leaks, either tell tale signs of running down the block, or into the bilge. I keep my bilges clean, so if I see anything in them, it causes me to investigate. Oil should not have a pungent smell, if it does, it could be an early sign of overheating. It should not be too thin, or have any grittyness to it.
Check everything that should move or pump or switch. This is work best done by you or a knowledgeable "mate", rather than the surveyor, who is more interested in the basic structure of the boat. When you get as far as making an offer, you should get a surveyor to look at the hull, and a technician to look at the mechanical bits, and to take engine oil samples, that are sent away for analysis.

 

[gjgm]

and to take engine oil samples, that are sent away for analysis.

Curious.. as you can not genuinely know how long the oil has been there, what conclusive information can you obtain from that ?

 

[rafiki_]

Curious.. as you can not genuinely know how long the oil has been there, what conclusive information can you obtain from that ?

Fair point, but it will tell you if bits of bearing, piston ring, liner etc are in the oil. Of course you should know when the oil was last changed, and it should be in the log book on board, but may not be there, but it is a way of telling if bits are falling into the oil!

 

[Jurgen]

If they are in the water I would seek to understand what works and what does not. The majority of this can be done without moving it, only starting the engines / gen.

Try to understand the extras the boat has if the broker has not listed them for you. Some things are expensive ( water maker) some not ( large screen TVs).

Do the engines look serviced? Oil clean ish, air filter clean ish. Not definitive but gives you some idea of what is going on.

For reasons that escape me boats don't seem to have a stack of bills. Ask to see the recent bills. They will probably say, oh we don't have those, but ask anyway! My car has a service book and a stack of bills, no idea why a boat would be different!

The boat we are currently buying was supposed to have a stack of bill's, when they couldn't be found I became worried.

The brokers contacted the original and subsequent brokers and established that the boat had been regularly serviced and assured me that it was not uncommon for lack of documents with boats.

That said our current boat has nearly all of the invoices from the day she was sold

 

[Portofino]

As another thread re cheap € boats , I have alluded to ,our nice Med relatives have no Brit stiff upper lips or heads up there arse .
If you have telephoned them ( broker ) and offered to pay for diesel. Which they will refuse you can expect to be picked up at the airport and dropped off ,then out for a sea trail -have a go yourself ,when back in the marina poke about. Lift floors open access panals etc .
Do a deal there and then .
In your case tee ing up 6 next week means you need to somehow put the " brake " on the first few -broker will be keen for commitment .
straight forward say it as it is- " iam here to vew 6 and by the end of the week expect to buy "
You really need to come away from viewing with a sale price from the first few pending viewing others ,and be proffessional in the sence of putting a down a dog and telling the broker .
The brokers sometimes like to meet at the office -to go through the paper work first then drive you in there car to view .
Some will lunch you others will dine you . Talking from experiance here -Italy /France viewings
Word of warning the Med way Allways takes longer than planned , approx 1 day per boat ,you will need to be pretty sharp ish to do two in a day
Have fun -remember leave all Brit attitude behind

Where are you looking ,which countries ?