Javelin
Well-Known Member
I wondered if the forum thinks there is a market for new 34 and 38 Victoria?
or is the market too congested already.
or is the market too congested already.
Victoria 34 and 38
- Thread starter Javelin
- Start date
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Built to the original standard they would be fiendishly expensive, and the GT36 débâcle suggests that there isn't much market for very expensive and rather old fashioned boats. On the other hand, they have kept their value a lot better than most other offerings of the same age. Could you do the Frances 38?
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Dunno but from what i see being bought & launched, it seems to be harbour boats are what new owners want
Poecheng
Well-Known Member
I don't think so.
They are designs about 20 odd years old.
I looked at the V34 a couple of years ago and, whilst they are clearly strongly built I didn't think much of the interior design and use of space.
At the time there were a number available for sale - some for a long while. These things go in cycles but I conclude there are sufficient in the market place to satisfy the entire demand.
They are designs about 20 odd years old.
I looked at the V34 a couple of years ago and, whilst they are clearly strongly built I didn't think much of the interior design and use of space.
At the time there were a number available for sale - some for a long while. These things go in cycles but I conclude there are sufficient in the market place to satisfy the entire demand.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
All the Victorias were designed to provide lots of storage for a relatively small number of people - quite different from the vast and airy caravans of today in which it's hard to pack away a toothbrush. The V34, for example, is really designed for three people and the smaller ones (26 and 30) for two.
Poecheng
Well-Known Member
I agree JD and I was looking only for Mrs P and me. Cannot remember the detail now but seemed like a lot of boat (hull) and yet the space not used well inside.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I think the space is used well, but it's used to provide lots of lockers and storage and not lots of lounging space. Great for self-sufficient cruising but not good for marina living (which is not a criticism of marina living).
Homer Simpson's Lovechild
Well-Known Member
I lust after the V34 and have done a lot of "virtual" tyre kicking on the type. I previously owned and loved a V26 but the cockpit was way too cramped for my then young family.
I think the comments about internal space are only valid in comparison to modern designs with aft cabins etc. I find the V34 to be quite airy and spacious in the main cabin when compared to boats I consider to be of similar appeal ( Vancouver,Rustler, Rival 36 for example )
There is a fairly constant 4- 6 Vicky 34's on the listings and while a couple of exceptional boats have sold quickly , the more run of mill boats have been around a long while. My guess is a 10 or 20 % reduction in perceived value is demanded by the current market. This suggests to me that while there are undoubtably people like myself who admire the boat, the volume would not support renewing production at other than bespoke one off levels. Simply find some cost plus buyers and you're in ( small) business!
I think the comments about internal space are only valid in comparison to modern designs with aft cabins etc. I find the V34 to be quite airy and spacious in the main cabin when compared to boats I consider to be of similar appeal ( Vancouver,Rustler, Rival 36 for example )
There is a fairly constant 4- 6 Vicky 34's on the listings and while a couple of exceptional boats have sold quickly , the more run of mill boats have been around a long while. My guess is a 10 or 20 % reduction in perceived value is demanded by the current market. This suggests to me that while there are undoubtably people like myself who admire the boat, the volume would not support renewing production at other than bespoke one off levels. Simply find some cost plus buyers and you're in ( small) business!
Poignard
Well-Known Member
The Joint Services Adventurous Sail Training Centre has had 15 of them for many years. They are worked hard and go out in all weathers.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The gap in the market, if there is one has been filled by the new Rustler 37. Time will tell.
Morris Yachts in the US who built similar Payne designs have switched to newer designs that are traditional above water but very modern underwater. There seems to be a market for these at least over the pond. The Mystery 35 is a similar concept.
Morris Yachts in the US who built similar Payne designs have switched to newer designs that are traditional above water but very modern underwater. There seems to be a market for these at least over the pond. The Mystery 35 is a similar concept.
Javelin
Well-Known Member
Hmm, thanks for that, pretty much our feelings too.
Looking at the molds there appear to be very few if any internal moldings which makes fitting out slow and subsequently expensive.
Probably why they keep going bust.
However it does provide the opportunity to modernise the interior layout and in the process make some internal tooling to speed up the build process.
Just kicking around ideas really.
Nothing certain but there seems to be some enthusiasm, I'm just thinking about the viability.
Looking at the molds there appear to be very few if any internal moldings which makes fitting out slow and subsequently expensive.
Probably why they keep going bust.
However it does provide the opportunity to modernise the interior layout and in the process make some internal tooling to speed up the build process.
Just kicking around ideas really.
Nothing certain but there seems to be some enthusiasm, I'm just thinking about the viability.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Yes, the interiors are mainly hand fitted joinery. That gave some advantages - when you ordered a new one from Victoria you coul dhave any layout you wanted as long as they could make it in the same time as the standard design. The downside was the cost ... a V26, for example, cost about 50% more than a Centaur when new.
jac
Well-Known Member
I think where there is a possible gap in the market is in the well designed sailing boat such as the Vics / Rustlers etc with quality sailing fittings but a more basic internal fitout. So plenty of storage etc - just made in a less handcrafted and more mass production way.
At the moment there seem to be 2 broad design trends - 1 which says modern and open and value led but optimised for charter / swanning round the med / marinas and another which is very much handbuilt, expensive, top quality and aimed at serious long distance / term sailors so if you could combine the benefits of the two then it might work.
At the moment there seem to be 2 broad design trends - 1 which says modern and open and value led but optimised for charter / swanning round the med / marinas and another which is very much handbuilt, expensive, top quality and aimed at serious long distance / term sailors so if you could combine the benefits of the two then it might work.
jordanbasset
Well-Known Member
Not sure where the idea comes from that AWB's don't have storage, unless perhaps people are talking about storage in difficult places to get to like in the bilges. Certainly my 2003 Bavaria 38 had stacks of lockers/storage plus 4 hanging lockers
roblpm
Well-Known Member
I would agree with this. There seems to be a choice between jen/ben/bav maybe some cruiser racers in the middle and then HR/Rustler etc at a ludicrous price.
A more modern (cheaper??!!) interior on a crusing (heavier??) hull??
Sooner or later there will be a demand as so few boats have been built in the last 10 years? (I mean unless you want ben/bav/jen).
jac
Well-Known Member
Older AWBs true but look around at SIBS etc. Beneteau were sellin an open plan 30 something where a forward bulkhead and a hanging locker were optional extras. Loveky and spacious when you first went below though.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
New boat buyers tend not to go for simple specs. Hanse, Bennie tried a few years ago and failed. Bavaria and Hanse.both announced economy ranges last year. Will be interesting to see how they get on.
Illuminating to see in this months YM an article on somebody who has just bought a new Mystery 35. If ever there was Boat that cried out for KISS, but the owner loaded it with every conceivable extra.
You might be able to offer a stripped out Rustler 37 for £250k, but whose going to buy that when for similar money you can get a fully specced newish HR or half that a good Bowman 40 even less for a Victoria 38.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Just like demand for wooden folkboats picked up after Westerly took all the business with Centaurs for fifteen years?
I can see the point of supplying modern hulls with simple (Varianta), standard (JenBenBav) or traditional (HR) interiors, but I really can't see who would want to buy an old fashioned hull with a modern interior. If you're buying new, why not get modern design, stress analysis and construction? All the old fashioned approach does is get you a heavier, weaker hull for more money.
rogerball0
N/A
Just out of interest are the rustler 37's selling in any number yet?
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Do designers really do that? It must be very difficult to analyse the stresses on a yacht at sea.
