VHF warnings

[Robin]

Last Sunday whilst reluctantly returning transmanche after 5 weeks in France but making an enjoyable 8-9kts under sail (yeehah!), when 11mls south of the Needles headed for Poole we came a cross a tug and tow. Visibility was poor despite overhead sunshine and ships in the lanes were pretty well invisible until about 1.2mls and it was about the same when we came across the tow on the inshore UK side of the lanes. The fact that it was a towing vessel and huge barge wasn't apparent until about 0.75mls off and we had to alter course to go around it whilst at the same time calling the tug on Ch16/06. To complete the picture,the barge was carrying gi-normous boulders ans the watch officer barely spoke English, to the point that I had no idea what his vessel was called. The sea was too sloppy to read the name of the vessel with binos or even to see if he was displaying the correct shapes/lights which Solent asked us to confirm.

My feeling is that some prior warning of a slow moving tow, inshore in poor visibility would have been useful, either from the tug putting out a warning or from the UK Coastguard. I called Solent CG and advised them and they apparently knew nothing. I gave them the position and approximate spped and course of the vessel but they didn't seem concerned nor did they put out any warnings subsequently even in their routine reports with the weather bulletins. Solent said they had NO information on the tug and tow - but presumably it SHOULD have been transmitting AIS data?

Now, having endured the monotonous radio checks on Ch16 from Solent ALL the way along the North Britanny coast starting as we came through Chenal Du Four and all the way home to Poole and despite their 'all radiochecks on Ch67 please' policy, I felt they could have provided a more useful service in this instance. I had to try very hard not to say so when I spoke to them on Ch67....

Comments please?

 

[duncan]

difficult to understand what they could constructively do - it' s not like a fixed hazard or one (sonar operations for example) operating in a defined area - it's here one minute and elsewhere an hour later surely; equally potentially affected craft could be many miles away too at the time of any warning.

anyway how was the trip? sounds like our paths may have crossed in the vicinity of the CIs last week or did you 'pass them by?

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Suprising and worrying, as you do often hear announcements to avoid slow tows in the nav warnings....

 

[KevB]

Not sure what the problem was? Maybe you thought about going between the tug and the tow but I doubt it. Was it that you had to alter course for a working boat when you originally thought you were the stand on vessel?

 

[Robin]

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure what the problem was? Maybe you thought about going between the tug and the tow but I doubt it. Was it that you had to alter course for a working boat when you originally thought you were the stand on vessel?

[/ QUOTE ]

We had cleared the lanes, which were very busy and were inshore on the UK side but we are well aware that some sizeable vessels can appear in this area so were still watching hard and still using radar even though under sail (in clearer vis it would have been off). The radar showed 2 targets crossing probably ahead but a bit close and if we were not under sail we would have been the give way vessel and in any case we expected to maybe have to alter course closer in. Because of the visibility, we didn't see the other vessels until about 1.2mls (radar range) but at that range we still couldn't see them well enough to identify them as a tug and tow, at a distance the first vessel looked like a fishing boat and the tow as a sizeable ship. As we got nearer I was puzzled by the slow speed and why they were not crossing as quickly as expected and looked with the binos, then could see tug and huge barge in tow.

Bear in mind we were under sail and in a sloppy sea (East F5) doing around 8-9kts and yawing a bit so radar and visual pictures less easy to interpret quickly, not the steadier platform of a mobo!

We often hear warnings put out either from the vessels concerning calling all ships and asking for a wide berth or from land sources such as the French Traffic Control centres or French Signal stations but in this case heard nothing at all when prior warning would have been useful. We DID hear constant calls for radiochecks, even within minutes of an announcement from Solent that they would only respond to those on Ch67, from our hearing they ignored just one and replied to several others no more than 30 minutes later, so nothing changes!

 

[ShipsWoofy]

If you got your wish, every trawler would be forced to regularly call in as a danger to shipping for example. Not very practical really.

I don't really see the problem.

And....

To be fair....

Who actually listens to the Notice to mariners part on the VHF safety broadcasts, am I the only one who does not stand over the chart plotting the unlit buoys. I have Navtex and occasionally read them on there, but really do phase out to the monotonous list read by the coastguard, which lets face it is just a bunch of numbers..

Ooh, I might get flamed for that one!

 

[Robin]

Hi Duncan

We often hear such vessels announcing position, course and speed and asking people to give a wide berth, usually an all ships call on Ch16 and also giving a working channel for further information. Joburg Traffic and Ushant Traffic also announce warnings even for vessels outside of but close to their respective TSS's.

Great cruise. lovely weather. people, food, wine...... We stopped just one night in St Peter Port as the forecast was for the wind going NE for Friday and we preferred the westerly wind last Thursday and went to Cherbourg for a last top up. St Peter Port these days is a turn off for me, I think they have a little cartel running on the restaurant prices for one thing and everything closes universally on Bank Holidays for another. We called Boatworks by mobile when 10mls out on Wednesday to find out when they closed which was 1730 despite this being when they had water enough to reach their fuel berth with a still rising tide, we arrived at 1740. We then went over at 0800 next morning when they opened (now a dropping tide and we need 2.1mts) and were 9th in the line, it took us 1.3 hours from the outside pontoons to refuel and return! In the event we sailed all the way to Cherbourg and thence to Poole so didn't need the diesel anyway, such is life.

When were you there?

Robin

 

[Robin]

Sorry Jools, don't agree. Darn Souf where it is perhaps busier there are often warnings put out especially in poor visibility. Fishing boats on the other hand are expected and not expected to do anything at all expected of them, but then they don't have half a mile of wire linked to a girt great barge either! There is one French fishing boat in the lanes off Ushant we see every year who always fishes with a yellow flashing light going, he knows the risks and never mind the regs!

Robin

 

[Sailfree]

Funny, the week before on the Sunday there was a tug towing a drilling platform/jack up rig from East to West, when crossing from Cherbourg to Solent. Now in good visibility I can spot a drilling platform and guess there may be a tow line between it and the tug in front (when god gave out brains I thought he said Trains and I asked for a small one!) but what I was not ready for was the number of ships in that lane that changed course to divert around him.

 

[duncan]

Sat/Sun/Mon over the BH weekend, then Beaucette Tue night. We found it a good place to base ourselves for trips to Sark, Herm, and Icart Bay on the S Coast. The people we were with prefered going inside but I found the tidal limitations a real pain - when the weather's good I want to come back in when I have 'finished' the day.
We were lucky with the weather (again) although we returned to Poole in a thunderstorm/squall for the 2nd time in 3 weeks!

we also found the whole areas attitude to time and opportunity hugely at odds with the south coast - whilst the TV was full of shopkeepers rubbing their hands in anticipation of a busy bank holiday everywhere on the CI's seemed to be closed!

 

[Robin]

Good point about the effect a tow will have on the actions of other vessels that you may have previously seen as clearing, especially true in fog. We once had a 'rogue' going west in the eastbound lane in fog and an eastbound ship altered to avoid him but did so by turning straight at us! Our rock carrying barge at a distance in haze looked like a regular laden ship, no clue until closer that it was not a vessel under it's own power.

I also forgot to mention that later on a ship called the tug and asked it to alter course as he was overtaking and wanted to open up the CPA to a 0.5ml minimum, so much for colregs!

 

[Robin]

Duncan

We went from Treguier to St Peter Port on the Wednesday and were hearing forecasts from France and Jersey Radio of thunderstorms. We heard lots of distant rumbles but no lightning luckily and not enough spots of rain to don oilies for.

We were in St Peter Port over the June Bank Holiday weekend, the harbour was packed and everything was closed as usual, even the water taxi was on holiday. The taxi returned on the Tuesday morning giving people dirty looks because everyone had their dinghies in use, I wonder why! Last time we tried the taxi on an earlier visit, on our 2nd (and last) night I asked as we went ashore in the day what time he was running to that evening if we went for a meal ashore. He said he couldn't take us back but could take us ashore and the harbour guys would probably drop us back if we asked nicely! We pumped up the dinghy and used that, but remembering that if we had done that earlier we would be £12 better off for the earlier trips. St Peter Port 'bulk' unlabelled gin is now £7.99/lt and we can easily better that in France (we paid £4.50/75cl bottles) so nowadays SPP is a layby we use betwixt and between. The only good thing is Bass at £5.80/lb 'cos I couldn't catch any!

The little colony of drunks still seems to have it's lunchtime/afternoon meetings by the marina too. This time they had a little camping stove making tea to go with the empty beer cans. Lovely tourist attraction that, eau de alco wafting in the air.

Robin

 

[duncan]

from only 2 trips I think I can understand all your comments clearly!

I was under instruction to take the tender's OB this time as SWMBO didn't understand why we (I) kept rowing the thing with an engine back home - 3.1m tender on a 7.8m boat is a little overkill but extremely useful around the place!

we were so happy with sucessfull trips both times that we didn't actually buy any duty frees at all.....still beginers at this channel crossing lark.

overall we will be visiting again - SWMBO was reasonably happy with the crossings over despite conditions stretching it to nearly 3 hours to Alderney. Braye to St PP was better and well under the hour though.

Sorry you didn't catch any bass - have to admit I didn't really try very hard either. Pleanty around Poole right now and for the next couple of months!

 

[Robin]

GY isn't cheap anymore anyway. Cigs for SWMBO are cheaper but still cost less in France and unlimited on how many she gets and GY booze is higher than France. The so-called VAT free shopping is a joke, most prices are cheaper at home even with the VAT paid. I certainly fail to see why eating out without VAT on the bill should cost more than at home VAT included either! There definitely seems like an agreement to fix prices or at least minimums. For example a quick check of the usual suspects in SPP revealed that all fillet steaks (a good standard item for comparison) cost £13.95 never less and without vegs too, each one is extra for each person and often over £2 per veg! There was 'talk' on the pontoons about the GY money mafia, one guy told me a taxi driver had told him 'not to ask such questions (about restaurant prices) whilst riding in his cab!' Bucktrouts have now sold their quayside/High Street shop and Marquands also sold out earlier so I guess the quay is moving to trendy boutiques and FatCat appartments.

Good luck to them, but if they really want a tourist industry they will find the attitudes need to change IMO, otherwise they had better hope the Banks and money sides hold up. We watched cruise liners come in over the June Bank Holiday and American tourists in droves going ashore from them to find everything shut! Shame really, such a beautiful place, but then it won't stop us overnighting there whilst passing swiftly by (fully provisioned) or stopping a day or so off Sark.

Couldn't catch even mackerel this holiday, just one with a plug spinning off Morgat and everyone said the same, very few about in Brittany. The French fishing mags said August is a bad bass month with too much boating activity, hot sun and clear waters, but we did see (gnashing of teeth) one French guy towing feathers behind his AX2 tender catch a big bass around 5 or 6lbs just behind where we were anchored! We set a lobster pot and caught a very tiny crab, albeit edible variety and a big starfish, but hadn't even got mackerel to bait the pot with thereafter, hey ho.

Robin

 

[tugboat]

Whenever I was towing a rig, I put out a Securite message once every hour. We often had half a mile of wire out (depending on weather and depth of water) so a significant length of tow and definite manoevrability probs. Details given included - names of tug and rig, length of tow, position course and speed, a request for all vessels to keep well clear, and details of VHF channels being monitored. It seemed simple good seamanship at the time.

 

[Robin]

Thanks. That is what I believe should be the case and it would make life easier for all, but this one liked to remain anonymous.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Robin, Welcome back - twas nice to meet you when we were both in S Brittany. Serendipity is in St Peterport as of last night - I must ask my friend who is delivering her back what he thought of the place in the light of your comments.

 

[Guest]

I understand your concern ....

But a tug and tow is regarded as a normal seagoing item and unless restricted in its abilities is to alter . stand on as any other vessel. The fact that a prudent seaman would allow a tug and tow to proceed unhindered despite its obligations is another matter ...

It is not obligatory or required for a tug and tow to broadcast ort have broadcast warnings about his position etc. Of course it makes life better if it is ... but then again many people do not listen to the warnings as well as you do.

I'm not arguing against your post ... in fact I like and agree with most of it ... but just think that the tug and tow has been proceeding minding his own business ... true ?? or did he do anything that was wrong or caused problem by his actions ???

The CG shows that there was in their opinion not a serious situation ?? Otherwise they would have taken a more active role ?

Just re-inforces the requirement to keep a good look-out ....

 

[graham]

Rewatch out for the spare towing line.

Some times a barge or whatever being towed will drag a spare tow line behind with just a small float at the end.

If the main tow parts then the tug can nip around the back and immediately pick up the secondary one.

So if giving way to a tug and tow cutting close across the stern could ruin your day /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Robin]

Re: I understand your concern ....

Nigel

As Tugboat says, I have many times heard Securite messages given out by tugs at regular intervals, helpful and considerate to all and in the interest I would have thought of safety. I have also heard such messages broadcast in the Channel either by Joburg Traffic Control (they even used DSC alarms to announce it every 20 minutes to everyones annoyance!) or by a French Signal Station or by Ushant Traffic Control. This tow was on the English side and silence ruled - except for the incessant giving of radiochecks to unheard callers in the Solent. The tow was westbound and would cross very busy ferry routes from Poole and Weymouth to France and the Channel Islands and was confirmed as seen near Weymouth by another poster by PM, not to mention there were lots of crossing private vessels it being the end of a Bank holiday Week. The visibility was poor (not good as forecast repeatedly by CG transmissions) and confirmed by radar at 1.2mls, but at that range you had to know where to look to even see it and even looking at it I didn't recognise it as a tug/tow until much closer as the barge looked like a ship in it's own right, as someone else said if it were an oil rig even I would have guessed 'tow'.

It wasn't a serious problem, but it could have been if the visibility was even worse and my point really was that advanced warning of his presence would enhance everyones safety with very little effort.

Robin