Vertical Batten In Mast Furling

[cloudnine]

What pupose does it serve???? Other than to create a problem when rolling in.
We have it on our Najad 390 which is used by many different crews and it is always getrting jammed. So much so that one crew managed to wind the first batten round the foil so tight that the batten shattered near the top. Sail jammed and very dodgy in a sudden blow.
Longest 2 battens subsequently removed for the collection trip home and the boat and sail performed perfectly.
Can someone explain what the over riding benefit of this system is 'cos right now it seems to be nothing but a pain in the a**e!!!
Manufacturers credit (while I'm on) Aquagen for no nonsense supply of service bits for Aquagen 4 quickly and ex gratia. Thanx to them.

 

[jerryat]

Hi Cloudnine,

A friend's boat I sail on regularly has a Maxi-Roach furling mainsail with full height battens. The idea, as implied in the name, is to get over the problem of almost all in-mast sails - the loss the roach. The luff has to be cut flat, or even slightly concave, on a 'standand' in-mast with the consequent loss of sail area/performance.

The vertical batten type attempt to get over this as the battens are able to hold an almost normal roach in place, so reducing or eliminating the loss of sail area. The sail on my friend's boat does not jam, but is not that easy to furl, requiring a hell of an effort manually, or as we usually do, the use of a winch, something I do not believe is good practice!

I suspect that the batten positions on your sail are incorrect. It is absolutely essential, that they are spaced such that they don't 'clash' with each other when being rolled, creating a 'lump' in the roll which jams in the mast slot. In your case, it may well be that the sail-maker has mis-measured this disposition resulting in the above problem.

This assumes that the furling mechanism is itself, in first class condition and free rolling!! Suggest you return the sail to the supplier for checking, or if that isn't easy/convenient, to a local sailmaker with PROPER experience of this type of sail, and obtain their views.

Hope this helps,

Cheers Jerry

 

[cloudnine]

thanx Jerry
You have pretty much confirmed my thoughts. When you are the only person sailing the boat, furling tension tends to become consistent and the "bunching" you suggest probably never happens. Ours is a boat share and we have several different crews and tensions tend to be inconsistent leading to the possibility of battens over laying each other.
Has anyone ever come across flat battens for this type of sail as this would reduce the potential bunch size, or are flat battens not stiff enough?
I appreciate the technical reasons for the roach but exactly how critical is it to a cruising situation. I suspect not a lot!

 

[chrisc]

Agree

we have had a Maxi roach mainsail for four years ,have NEVER had a problem with it ,this must be some sort of record (judging by some comments in these forums).but the boat is always sailed by just me and my wife,we dont let anyone else get their hands on it.

 

[Talbot]

I also have the maxi-roach and very much like the vertical battens for the shape they give to the sails. If you are having problems with the battens going in unevenly I suspect the cause is because:

The sail is a maxi-roach and he cuts the leach too high IMHO, thus unless you release the kicker, (part of the user instructions), the stress on the leach causes the sail to wrap tighter at the top of the roller than at the bottom, thus causing the vertical battens to get out of line.

suggest you make sure that the kicker can be released from within the cockpit.

If you are having trouble with the rope getting tangled at the base of the roller, it is also probably due to the kicker not being tensioned such that the boom is at the correct angle.

Pay attention to the kicker for both hoisting and reefing and it should be fine.

 

[jerryat]

Hi Cloudnine,

If the boat is designed for a mainsail with no roach then there is, of course, little problem, though personally I'm not a devotee of in-mast. I've seen the dreadful remains of mainsails in the the Med. when the big gusts (quite common in places) have caught the boats out, the sails have jammed and been destroyed.

That said, many, like chrisc have good experiences and it does seem to revolve around the very careful use of tensions etc when furling. If the boats sailplan has not been designed for a roachless sail, you may lose up to ten percent of the 'normal' sail area if you retro fit one, and this will affect the performance and pointing ability (usually) of the boat.

Frankly, in the average cruising situation, I doubt if it matters much or that you'd notice a significant difference in passage times over the shorter/medium trips. There is a current thread debating the pros/cons in in-mast here at the moment, so I won't repeat my own (and others) preference for an EFFICIENT slab reefing system.

Cheers Jerry

 

[cloudnine]

Thanx Talbot
Instructions to all crew are
kicker tension off
main sheet not tight
downwind or not more than 15 deg off.
i.e. the sail shape is not variable but the boom position is, therefore let the boom be the variable. seems sense to me but one can never be sure with allsorts doing the furling.
Cheers

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Downwind or not more than 15degs off???

Surely you mean head to wind. Certainly with ours, I can only furl down wind in a Force 2 or less. It furls best with the wind just on the starboard bow, as this holds the sail at the best angle onto the roller.

Also don't bother with the longest stay - it has been in our front garden for the past two years. Works Ok without it but need the other two to keep some shape in the sail. Often put some tension on the leach line too.

Having said all that, we are planning on a new sail during the coming winter.

 

[bluestone]

This is interesting as I have in mast electric reefing and had been wondering about the maxi roach sails. it seems quite convincing to have vertical battens as I have in mast reefing. What are you going to change to?

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Haven't thought about it yet, but would be happy to go with another Maxi roach.

Their loft is only half an hour away, and I found them very helpful when I took the sail to them for minor repairs. Have also spoken to the man (whose name slips my mind) at each of the last two boat shows. He has offered to come to the boat and help out with the sail and furling. Probably not to your location for free though!

 

[toad]

From the fitting instructions for a fully batterned Maxi Roach mainsail

Setting up the system
First make sure the kicker is off i.e plenty of slack.Make sure the mainsheet has sufficient slack to enable the boom to rise at least 14 inches.Pull thesail fully out until the foot and the leach are of a similar tension i.e. basically flat.Go to the kicker and tension it to that angle.Do not over tension.This should be the last time you ever need to adjust the kicker.
Now roll the sail in and set the boom horizontally to the mast,when you bring the sail out next time it will automatically slack off the topping lift.

When bringing the sail out it is important that the sail is tightened around the spar.This is done by pulling the reefing line and snugging the sail up around the spar before attempting to haul the sail out.BUT it is not necessary to roll the sail in tightly as you go when furling it away. You can let the clew go but keep control so that it does not flog into the center of the sail, and roll the sail in as loosely as you want.The main thing is, before you bring the sail out again, take hold of the reefing line and pull it hard. Ifyou have not got the strength to pull it hard, then put it on the winch and turn the winch no more than one and a half times. Do not over winch.
The sail should never be over tensioned, you should only need to tension the sail until the wrinkles in the luff disappear.

 

[cloudnine]

correct! thanx bignick