Ventilation or aircon?

[boatmike]

Currently getting Appela (Aqua-star 33 non flybridge aft cockpit) up to scratch with the intention of pottering down through France to the med and hopefully Greece. My only reservation with the boat is that it is a bit like a greenhouse. There are sliding side windows, a hatch over the helm seat and the inevitable sliding rear doors but in hot weather in the Med I am going to need to prevent the cabin temperature rising. I am not so worried when stationary as we will probably be outside during the day but when underway I would like to be cool. She has twin TAMD41a engines so I have a maximum of 60amps x 2 charging current. I also have an inverter. My question is, should I be fitting aircon and if so 12v or AC? I would like to avoid having a seperate genny. Perhaps just some form of forced air flow would suffice? Must be a common dilemma for MoBos. Never worried about it on my sailboat as we were outside all of the time, but what does the forum advise and what's the best aircon company to talk to in the UK if I go that way?

 

[John100156]

When under way, even in the Med, you probably can rely on air movement to keep you sufficiently cool. I would suggest that you might need AC when not moving, particulalry in the Med in the evennings or on a hot night, even more so if you are in an area with lots of mozzies and no wind! It can get quite unbearable without AC. I speak from experience with regard to the latter!

 

[DougH]

In Summer Med=Air con.

 

[jfm]

Yup, I agree with John, you should be fine underway. Airco becomes essential rather than nice-to-have at night in hot places, when sleeping would otherwise be impossible

You said 60amps whereas what matters is power. I'll assume 12v, so you have theoretical max 700w each side, but some of that is needed for fridges and generally running the ship so you have maybe 1000w availalbe, max, on a good day. That will not run any serious level of airco, though it would run a very small unit

If you do not want a genset I think best would be to fit 230v a/c and just use it when you have shorepower, though it you like to live on anchor a lot that wont be suitable.

Maybe forget the airco, fit another battery or two and a big inverter, and use big fans over the beds to keep cool at night. This works quite well

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

what's the best aircon company to talk to in the UK if I go that way?

If you do decide to get aircon installed, I've just had a Dometic all-in-one unit installed in my Fairline Targa 40 by Seacraft Marine, who have been very impressive over the past few days and I'd recommend them without hesitation.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[Paul1962]

Hi Mike,
Can thoroughly recommend Nauticool in Poole for onboard air con.

Regards

 

[boatmike]

Thanks for the responses so far guys. I do in fact have a 440 amp hour service battery bank and a high output inverter but of course this would soon get depleted if at anchor so I guess a genny might be a good idea after all. I tend to agree about evening use too. I had forgotten those voracious mossies which probably make it essential to shut them out! Coupling up to shorepower is OK in marinas of course but I guess down in Greece most harbours don't have that luxury. Neither do you in French canals most times so perhaps a small genny is a good investment anyway.... Jimmy, how big a unit have you fitted and what did it cost? I have no idea what sort of budget I need to allow for a unit on a 33ft boat.....
p.s. Any recommendations for a small onboard genny? Don't really want to carry petrol on board. Are diesel gennies noisy?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Jimmy, how big a unit have you fitted and what did it cost? I have no idea what sort of budget I need to allow for a unit on a 33ft boat.....

I got lots of advice from the forum here about aircon sizing, and in the end I've gone with a single 16000btu unit which cools the saloon and the front cabin. I suspect it could probably drive a vent in the mid cabin as well but I guess I won't really know how good it is until we have tried it all properly once we get down there.

In terms of cost, the aircon unit itself was about £1900; the various installation ancilliaries about £1300, and installation for my boat was about £1700, all ex vat.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[Hurricane]

I got lots of advice from the forum here about aircon sizing, and in the end I've gone with a single 16000btu unit which cools the saloon and the front cabin. I suspect it could probably drive a vent in the mid cabin as well but I guess I won't really know how good it is until we have tried it all properly once we get down there.

In terms of cost, the aircon unit itself was about £1900; the various installation ancilliaries about £1300, and installation for my boat was about £1700, all ex vat.

Cheers
Jimmy

I should think that will be worth every penny spent on it, Jimmy.

 

[MapisM]

I don't know if it's because you guys north of the Channel are used to pretty low average temperatures, but in my experience (which anyway is shared by most of my boating mates) the A/C in the med is not THAT essential.
Many factors can affect such evaluation of course: the specific location, the type of boat, whether you prefer to overnight in the marina or at anchor...
Anyway, in the last years, I never (and I mean it!) had to turn the genset on to run the A/C at anchor.
And also in the marina, I used it maybe between 5 and 10 days in total each summer. It depends on how many days the wind doesn't blow at all, which is something pretty rare where I am based.
Anyway, I surely would NOT fit a genset for the A/C alone.
If and when you'll have a really hot and windless night at anchor, it's such a nice opportunity for a refreshing swim...
Otoh, I do have mosquito nets on the portholes, but again, also the need for them depends a lot on the location.
I fitted them when my home port was in a lagoon in northern Adriatic, and around there you couldn't live without them.
Now, I just leave them on 'cause they are already there...

 

[henryf]

I would have thought a generator would be pretty much essential for a long term live aboard / extended cruiser such as you are planning. It provides a third option if domestic and engine batteries get depleted (use the genny to run the battery charger), tools can be run in fact the options really open up.

Our current boat is the first one we've had with a generator and I wouldn't be without one now. If you do fit a generator make sure it is properly installed with a silent exhaust particularly for inland waterway use. Once fitted a small generator doesn't look out of the way given Jimmy's experience. I think he went for a Dometic unit from memory.

Good luck

Henry

 

[John100156]

.....A/C in the med is not THAT essential.....

Mmmm I recall many nights in Sant Carles with SWMBO in the summer of 2008, on my Targa 34 (loved that boat) without AC. Really very hot, lots of mozzies about, so we went below, they always find a way under the covers....

It was soooo hot AND humid, we had all the portholes open and a fan to at least encourage some air flow to increase evaporation and cool the skin! We had mozzie nets, there was no wind. To say it was unbearable is an undertatement!

Mind you, I do agree its expensive to run, you could say noisy, its certainly expensive to install, what with genny and all, but if you prefer it cool like I do and I must admit to having numerous layers of very thick insulation about my body...., I would say that it is very close to an essential!

MapisM, you must be a hardy fellow.....

 

[MapisM]

Yep, I see what you mean.
In fact, I didn't say it's useless - I do turn it on occasionally, but not as often as you would expect.
And I'm further South than St.Carles btw: approximately the same latitude as Ibiza, in fact.
But it does depend a lot on the specific location, as I said.
It's quite normal to have along most Med mainland coasts a more hot and humid climate, and also more mosquitos, compared to islands.
And even more so when there are lagoons nearby, of course.

 

[BartW]

the A/C in the med is not THAT essential.
.

actually I'm 100% with you on this,
I'm not sure how come, but swmbo and myself we love the heat

during all our trips last year with Blue Angel, I can't remember for one moment that I really needed A/C.
Yes I have switched it on in a few rare occasions, but that was merely to test the systems.
But perhaps this might be different in a full GRP boat (ours is mainly wood)

as you say, a refreshing swim, I take at least 2 or 3 a day in summer time

have to agree about mosquito's though, Luckyly not many on the frensh reviera, but just one night in Port Saint Louis, that was terrible.


@Boatmike,
I have here a Dometic travel power, 3000W 230V AC generator on the shelf, (add on unit for a boat diesel engine)
if you're interested I want to sell it for silly money.

 

[boatmike]

Boatmike,
I have here a Dometic travel power, 3000W 230V AC generator on the shelf, (add on unit for a boat diesel engine)
if you're interested I want to sell it for silly money.

Hmm... That sounds like a belt driven genny to piggy-back off the engines alternator pulley?
Might be worthy of consideration... how much? Is it new or used? (PM me if you like)

 

[BartW]

That sounds like a belt driven genny to piggy-back off the engines alternator pulley?
Might be worthy of consideration... how much? Is it new or used? (PM me if you like)

yes it is,
here is a link to some online info,
http://www.dometic.com/enuk/Europe/...pment/Generators/product/?productdataid=67399

the unit is 3y old, but was only in a boat for a few months for testing,
we wanted to use it to run a scuba dive compressor, but it couldn't cope with the high startup current from the 3,5Kw electric motor.
so we took it out and installed a petrol engine on the compressor.

the mechanical mounting kit is for Volvo D3, I'm not sure if this is adaptable to your Volvo. The dealer in Holland was very helpfull, they might know.
(they have buyld that D3 kit)

The unit is still working perfectly, with all nevessary documentation,
its sitting there doing nothing,
if anybody can use it, will consider "any" offer

here are some pics

 

[boatmike]

Hi Bart,

Thanks for that but I dont think it will fit my engine without modification and in any case I really want electrical power without running main engine. Thanks anyway

Mike

 

[BartW]

No problem Mike,

this post just made me thinking again about my unit,
and another reader might be interested in this.

Cheers
Bart

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I don't know if it's because you guys north of the Channel are used to pretty low average temperatures, but in my experience (which anyway is shared by most of my boating mates) the A/C in the med is not THAT essential.

With respect, Mapism, you are Italian and therefore accustomed to Med summer heat; it's no surprise that you can cope with the heat a lot better than we northern Europeans. Also, your boat is a single engine displacement boat. You don't have 2 bloody great big planing boat engines radiating heat into the accomodation for many hours, even after they are switched off. In addition, we fair skinned northern Europeans are like fresh meat to every mosquito in the Med so its not advisable to leave windows open at night; you can't have mosquito nets over every window.
IMHO, aircon is essential in the Med during July and August and you do need a generator to power it because many marinas only have 16A shorepower supplies and that isn't enough to drive most aircon systems

 

[MapisM]

your boat is a single engine displacement boat

Ermm... not according to my avatar!
Anyway, yep, also the type of boat is a factor, and I did mention it.
On mine, the lumps of iron which radiate heat long after they're turned off, on one hand are below a thick wood deck - which I suspect makes more difference than the engine size, and otoh I leave the e/r blowers on well after arrival - which helps cooling the e/r temp much more quickly, and in turn leaves the saloon cooler.
A simple trick really, but not so well known in spite of the fact that it's very effective.
And much better than running A/C as soon as the boat is back in the marina anyway, particularly during the day, when you frequently go in and out for all sort of reasons. Not to mention - heaven forbid - leaving the genset on! Don't your raggie neighbours kill you for that?