VAT

[Mhvoiceuk]

I am curious to find out about VAT status for boats which were built/registered pre 1985. My boat was first bought in 1970 and has been (as far as I know) used in the UK only. The HMCE website is not very clear. I bought my boat with very littler history. I have the original hull certificate and a few old bills and the brochure. The chap that I bought it from wrote me a non VAT receipt and that's it. The HMCE site says:

Certain vessels which were in use as private pleasure craft before 1/1/1985 and were in the EC on 31/12/1992, may be ‘deemed’ VAT paid under the Single Market transitional arrangements.

Documentary evidence to support this could include:
For Age For Location at 31/12/92

*   Marine Survey * Receipt for mooring*   Part 1 Registration* Receipt for Harbour Dues

*   Insurance Documents* Dry dock records*   Builders Certificate

I have no idea whether my boat was in the EEC or not between 1985 and 1992 ( I imagine it was). Apart from the hull registration document I don't have any of the documents mentioned.

There must be thousands of boat owners in my situation who may plan the odd trip to France. Any idea what you are supposed to do if you are nabbed by customs? Also if you run a business or are self employed are you supposed to declare your own VAT status?

MHvoiceUK
 


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[petery]

Join the club

There appears to be no way out of this dilemna as many posters have indicated that HMCE no longer issue any letters or certificates to prove VAT exemption.

... and how can a French harbour master know whether an 11 year old mooring receipt from a long-bust marina is genuine?

I've stopped worrying.

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[Birdseye]

HMC&E are not in the business of helping the citizen, as you must know if you are VAT registered. And in any case, what happens in a foreign country to a visitor is a matter of their interpretation of their law that puts the EC requirement into effect, plus all sorts of extraneous factors like the side of the bed, your nationality, did you skip the last marina etc.

As an illustration, I have heard that during the Bosnia conflict, numbers of British boats had documentation problems in Greece because of their hostility toward the Macedonians and our perceived support of them.

In practise you are unlikely to get a problem in France unless you do something to cause problems, or dont have the key documents like ssr, insurance, passport. Not impossible, but unlikely. I dont have the original invoice but have had not problems or even requests for it.

Chase back through the ownership chain to see what you can build up, but dont worry. You've got the boat now anyway!

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[extravert]

As long as you have your boat registered on Part 1/SSR and you have the original documents to show this with you at all times, you will be OK. The reason for this is that if you can prove that your boat is part of the British fleet (with the above documents) then the worst that a foreign inspector can do is refer an enquiry regarding VAT status to the authorities in your home country. They cannot demand VAT payment then and their or empound your boat, because any perceived VAT owing is owed to the UK government and not theirs.

If they do refer your case to our authorities, our HMC&E will file and forget the enquiry. They have more important things to do.

As an example of how uninterested HMC&E are, when I sold my previous boat I had no VAT paid documentation, and could not sell my boat without it. I went to HMC&E with cheque book in hand ready to pay it to get the evidence, and they just told me to go away. No amount of pleading would let me give them money in exchange for a piece of paper. Instead I sold the boat VAT unpaid and the new owner paid VAT to the Swedish government instead. They seemed quite happy to take it.

<hr width=100% size=1>One day, I hope to own a real boat.

 

[vyv_cox]

My documents and boat were given a thorough inspection by French Customs earlier this year. They only looked at registration (Part 1) and our passports. Never even opened the remainder of the folder that contained everything else.

It would seem that owners of obviously older boats have little to fear. Non EU-flagged, new, large boats may have different experiences.

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[AlanPound]

" then the worst that a foreign inspector can do is refer an enquiry regarding VAT status to the authorities in your home country. "

... I'm not sure that's the worst they can do. When I was buying my boat, the broker (one of the bigger ones) had clients with (big) boats arrested in both Portugal and Spain (Barcelona) that year. In each case the message from the local C&E was was "Either produce evidence of VAT paid, or produce the funds... and I really have no interest in what your fancy London solicitor tells you..."

This is hearsay, if you like (it wasn't my first-hand experience), but as I am clear about the standing of the person giving me the information, I certainly believe it!

... And certainly I have first hand knowledge that EC regulations are interpreted in different ways in different countries...

Alan

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