VAT paymemt and Transit log in Greece

[Ivana]

Hello to everyone. I try to find out two things and hope someone could know more and give me advice.
I have a EU (Polish) registered sailboat in Greece under temporary transit log (I am a non EU citizen).
1) Within my transit log - how many times can I stop the 18 months clock? Only one time during this period, or even more?
2) Do you know someone who is dealing and supporting with the proceedure of VAT payment in Preveza or Lefkada?
I would appreciate some advice! Thank you very much in advance!

 

[Tranona]

Welcome to the forum

There are 2 issues here VAT and transit log which are separate but related.

First the VAT rules. If the boat is not EU VAT paid, is owned by a non EU resident (citizenship is irrelevant) and registered outside the EU it is permitted under temporary admission to 18 months in the EU without paying VAT. It must then leave the EU and re-enter when a further 18 months will start. The EU "rule" is not specific as to what constitutes "leaving and re-entry" and it is left to state customs to manage the system. I understand that in Greece they only count the time the boat is in use towards the 18 months, treating the time that papers are lodged with customs as being not in the EU. You need to check with your local customs office how they manage that.

Based on the information you give your boat does not qualify for TA as it is registered in the EU. You do not say where you are resident but you must be resident outside the EU. If you are non EU resident than you must register your boat either in the country of your residence or on one of the "open" registers such as the "Red Flag" registries (British, Jersey and Guernsey are the most common).

If the boat does not have EU VAT status and it is not eligible for TA then you will have to try and import it into the EU and pay VAT plus probably demonstrate that it complies with the latest EU standards. I say probably because, although that is what EU law says it is unclear how this is applied to used boats. Once again interpretation is left to local states.

Hope this helps

 

[Ivana]

Welcome to the forum

There are 2 issues here VAT and transit log which are separate but related.

First the VAT rules. If the boat is not EU VAT paid, is owned by a non EU resident (citizenship is irrelevant) and registered outside the EU it is permitted under temporary admission to 18 months in the EU without paying VAT. It must then leave the EU and re-enter when a further 18 months will start. The EU "rule" is not specific as to what constitutes "leaving and re-entry" and it is left to state customs to manage the system. I understand that in Greece they only count the time the boat is in use towards the 18 months, treating the time that papers are lodged with customs as being not in the EU. You need to check with your local customs office how they manage that.

Based on the information you give your boat does not qualify for TA as it is registered in the EU. You do not say where you are resident but you must be resident outside the EU. If you are non EU resident than you must register your boat either in the country of your residence or on one of the "open" registers such as the "Red Flag" registries (British, Jersey and Guernsey are the most common).

If the boat does not have EU VAT status and it is not eligible for TA then you will have to try and import it into the EU and pay VAT plus probably demonstrate that it complies with the latest EU standards. I say probably because, although that is what EU law says it is unclear how this is applied to used boats. Once again interpretation is left to local states.

Hope this helps

Thank you very much for your response. I will definitely check with the local customs office whether the clock stops every time I leave the boat in a boatyard during the 18-month period. That’s how it should be.
My boat is registered in Poland (this should also be an open register), and I have residence outside the EU and i am non EU citizen. I did the import in Preveza and the customs office issued me a Temporary Admission (TA) without any issues. Apparently, they say that it is indeed possible to get TA if you are not an EU citizen and your boat is registered in an EU country.
At the moment, I’m trying to find someone who can help me with the VAT payment procedure. If there is any contact, someone who knows someone, I would appreciate

 

[Irish Rover]

I did the import in Preveza and the customs office issued me a Temporary Admission (TA) without any issues. Apparently, they say that it is indeed possible to get TA if you are not an EU citizen and your boat is registered in an EU country.

I'm astonished by this. My clear understanding is that an EU flagged boat does not qualify for TA. However, perhaps if you indicated your intention to pay the VAT a shorter duration form of TA might have been possible. Are you sure your transit log is 18 months duration?

 

[Tranona]

I am also surprised as registration outside the EU is a key component of the requirements to gain TA and has been since 1993. it does not matter whether it is an open or closed register which is why the Red Flag registries are often used by non EU and non UK residents who are not able to or are unwilling to use their national register. Greek officials are well known for either not understanding or choosing to ignore EU rules, particularly those that became important after Brexit, but this is a surprise.

However if you intend importing the boat into the EU it becomes irrelevant, although not sure why one would want to do that as TA effectively gives you unlimited use of your boat in the whole of the EU if you are able to comply with the leaving/re-entry requirements.

You may find this thread useful Greece and the Unlimited Transit Log - news from the CA although the focus is slightly different it will give you a flavour of the inconsistencies when dealing with different customs offices. Towards the end are some experiences with Preveza and Corfu plus a contact in Corfu that might be useful.

 

[Irish Rover]

I asked above if the OP is sure the TA is 18 months. My reason being that 8 years ago I bought a boat in Preveza which was VAT unpaid and in Greece on TA. Being an Irish citizen the customs officer assumed I was an EU resident and wanted to issue a 30 day transit log to give me time to take the boat out of the EU. Strictly speaking if I was EU resident I shouldn't have been entitled to any form of TA.

 

[Ivana]

I plan to pay the VAT so maybe this is why they issued me the TA. I will have the opportunity tho check everything in person since I will be in Greece in september. I will inform you then what I have learned. Indeed on my TA there are two dates written - one concrning 18 months duration, and the other one just 6 months. As far as I understood I am allowed to be in the watter for max 6 months, after which I have to launch the boat out and stop the clock. During this time I will for sure try to organize the VAT issue, that is whay I asked if someone has some experience or contact of a survey and customs agents...I understood that there are examples like mine and it helps a lot knowing there is a possibility to solve this issue.

 

[Ivana]

I am also surprised as registration outside the EU is a key component of the requirements to gain TA and has been since 1993. it does not matter whether it is an open or closed register which is why the Red Flag registries are often used by non EU and non UK residents who are not able to or are unwilling to use their national register. Greek officials are well known for either not understanding or choosing to ignore EU rules, particularly those that became important after Brexit, but this is a surprise.

However if you intend importing the boat into the EU it becomes irrelevant, although not sure why one would want to do that as TA effectively gives you unlimited use of your boat in the whole of the EU if you are able to comply with the leaving/re-entry requirements.

You may find this thread useful Greece and the Unlimited Transit Log - news from the CA although the focus is slightly different it will give you a flavour of the inconsistencies when dealing with different customs offices. Towards the end are some experiences with Preveza and Corfu plus a contact in Corfu that might be useful.

 

[Ivana]

I am not happy of course to pay VAT if a TA works for me as for a non EU citizen, but as the rules are eather confused or not understood well, paying the VAT is the only safe thing for me. If I just could find some strait forward chapters from some "maritime laws" concerning this issue I could know what to do. Now I am somehow i between...

 

[Irish Rover]

I am not happy of course to pay VAT if a TA works for me as for a non EU citizen, but as the rules are eather confused or not understood well, paying the VAT is the only safe thing for me. If I just could find some strait forward chapters from some "maritime laws" concerning this issue I could know what to do. Now I am somehow i between...

No reason why TA will not work for you, but you need to register in a non EU country or State like UK or Jersey.

 

[Tranona]

Agree, although registering outside the EU may carry a cost, depending on your citizenship it will almost certainly be far less than paying VAT. "Maritime" law won't help you as VAT is EU law and Transit Logs are local Greek law. When the two are together a recipe for confusion and inconsistent application, although recent reports show that matters have improved considerably.

 

[Irish Rover]

It's possible an individual customs officer made a mistake in granting TA to an EU flagged boat. Registering elsewhere to rectify it is really not that difficult. I've had experience of dealing with Greek customs in Samos, Corfu and Preveza and I always found them to be professional and good to deal with.

 

[Ivana]

...

Agree, although registering outside the EU may carry a cost, depending on your citizenship it will almost certainly be far less than paying VAT. "Maritime" law won't help you as VAT is EU law and Transit Logs are local Greek law. When the two are together a recipe for confusion and inconsistent application, although recent reports show that matters have improved considerably.

I found some interesting readings:

Article 250-253 of the Union Custom Code
Article 207-217 of the Customs Delegated Regulation 2015/2445

One of the key sections to read is Article 217(e) of the Customs Delegated Regulation which refers to the 18 month period allowed for private yachts to remain within the EU.

Anyhow, thank you very much for your answers

 

[Ivana]

It's possible an individual customs officer made a mistake in granting TA to an EU flagged boat. Registering elsewhere to rectify it is really not that difficult. I've had experience of dealing with Greek customs in Samos, Corfu and Preveza and I always found them to be professional and good to deal with.

I hope that in September Greek custom in Preveza will help me further...

 

[Irish Rover]

...

I found some interesting readings:

Article 250-253 of the Union Custom Code
Article 207-217 of the Customs Delegated Regulation 2015/2445

One of the key sections to read is Article 217(e) of the Customs Delegated Regulation which refers to the 18 month period allowed for private yachts to remain within the EU.

Anyhow, thank you very much for your answers

My strong advice would be not to go quoting EU regs to Greek officials. Approach them as if you think they're all knowing, all seeing, demi gods. If things are not going your way crying may be a lot more effective than arguing. At the end of it all, on the basis of what you've posted, you're 100% entitled to TA. If a mistake has been made it can be corrected easily enough, with a bit of goodwill on both sides.

 

[Ivana]

My strong advice would be not to go quoting EU regs to Greek officials. Approach them as if you think they're all knowing, all seeing, demi gods. If things are not going your way crying may be a lot more effective than arguing. At the end of it all, on the basis of what you've posted, you're 100% entitled to TA. If a mistake has been made it can be corrected easily enough, with a bit of goodwill on both sides.

thanks for the advice!!! Also in my country everyone thinks they’re semi-gods. Unfortunately its part of our survival strategy in a crazy modern society ...Still, I hope there won’t be any problems, but a few female tears never hurt