VAT paid status and the RYA mag

Heckler

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Just opened up the RYA mag that came today, VAT update it says and in essence the reveners are not convinced there is a prob with proving vat paid status and the RYA do not have evidence of boats being impounded and any one being fined whilst cruising abroad, this despite doing a VAT survey recently. This result doesnt surprise me, i posted a few months ago asking for the same info, plenty of anecdotes but no hard first hand evidence.
Bottom line it would not appear to be a problem so why do we get all bent out of shape about it?
As an aside, the vat invoice for my boat is a std headed piece of paper from a national dealer, the other week I bought a cutlass bearing off them and the invoice was exactly the same but with cutlass bearing on it instead of a boat, the point being that that lusted after piece of paper is a bog std piece of stationary and any one with a computer could come up with an identical piece of paper!!
nuff said?
Stu
 

bluedragon

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I also suspect that we might be getting ourselves into a tizzy about very little. There was a lot of advice on this forum about 2-3 years ago that said when buying a boat "no VAT invoice, don't buy it". It caused me a bit of concern even though when my boat was built VAT didn't exist in the UK! I still asked the previous owner to prove the boat as in the EU on the magic date in 199? or whenever it was. I'm now a lot more relaxed about the whole issue especially as my foreign forays are likely to be to Ireland (where common sense prevails). As you say, lots of fear and anecdotes, but few hard facts it seems...(someone will now tell us otherwise...but that's the idea isn't it /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif)
 

Birdseye

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Its a bit like lobster pots isnt it. We all know there are problems, some of us have been caught, but no one can be bothered to tell the rya.

Mind you, its a fob off question from the customs. They know how many times they have been asked about vat status so they know its a worry for us. But as a part of the civil service I have always found them to be neither civil nor much of a service.
 
G

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Well last year I was approached in the marina by German Customs, who spent a long time going through ships documents in order to ascertain VAT paid status. They weren't interested in anything else, only the VAT issue.

I tried to report it on the RYA website via the e-mail address on their website. After spending quite a while typing it up I got an error message - the e-mail address they gave didn't exist. After that I gave up (I think/hope I sent a message to their general e-mail saying the submission process didn't work). So it doesn't surprise me that they got little response.

I don't know whether my boat would have been impounded if I couldn't prove it - I presume so, because otherwise there would have been no point to their visit. Part 1 registration certificate + bill of sale proving boat built and later sold in UK both within last 10 years didn't make them happy, despite long explanations.

In the end I managed to dig out original builder's certificate/invoice proving showing VAT as paid, and they went away.
 

rogerthebodger

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It is in the interest of customs to fob you off about VAT status as it allows then to get more income by insisting you have not broken the law in stead of haveing to prive you have broken the law by not paying VAT.

Every import and locally manufactured product from a vat registered vender must have VAT paid and it is the VAT mans job to audit venders to ensure that.

This has not happened and so now the VAT man now makes you responsable and not him.

When you take your car to europe do you have to prove you paid VAT when you return or while in europe. NO you dont so why boats. Its because they are a soft target.

I deal with RSA customs every day and the tricks they get up to will amase you and the UK HMCE is no different.
 

Birdseye

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" it allows then to get more income by insisting you have not broken the law in stead of haveing to prive you have broken the law by not paying VAT." Eh? That doesnt make sense.

The problem comes about Roger because it is possible to legally buy and keep a boat in the UK witthout paying VAT, and it is legally possible to reclaim UK vat under certain circumstances. Indeed, at one time, lots of French people kept their boat under one of the various UK flags, didnt pay vat and annoyed their own governments.

To compound matters, there are no official UK documents of ownership that prove vat status unlike the situation in Europe where such docs usually do prove vat status.

So the scene is set for some Euro official to say to a Brit yottie, "prove you have paid vat". Its not common but it does happen. And since most UK yotties dont have the original manufacturers docs, they struggle to prove themselves innocent. Technically it shouldnt be an issue since a UK boat sold by a UK citizen in the UK to anothert UK citizen is a tax matter for the UK government alone. But tell that to the Frogs!

Its technically possible to have the same problem with a car though the potential for avoiding paying vat on a car is very small.
 
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