VAT Paid Certificate for a sailboat in Greece

[SMaturin]

An ad on the broker site told that the sailboat has the VAT paid. When I talked to the current owner he showed me a pack of receipts of different purchases related to the boat and said all VATs for these were paid. At that time I didn't know that paid VAT should be confirmed by a certificate and didn't ask the owner to show it to me.
How does certificate VAT paid looks like in Greece? Thanks!

 

[Tranona]

In most cases the only evidence of VAT payment is the original invoice, although some states also issue an official confirmation that is linked to compulsory registration of the boat. The seller is misleading you by saying "all VAT were paid" as there is no VAT on sales between private people. Normally there is only one VAT payment and that is from the builder or agent to the first private owner, but in Greece for example many boats are first sold to a charter company and VAT does not get paid until the boat is sold to a private owner. There are other situations where VAT may be paid, primarily if a boat is imported from outside the EU in which case there will be a customs receipt.

So difficult to advise what you should look for as it depends on the history of the boat. However it is common, particularly with older boats for the evidence to be missing as the only copy is (or should ) be with the boat, and generally this does not cause a problem unless you start moving the boat in and out of the EU, or in some cases into certain EU states who do not fully understand the way that "free circulation" works and impose their own "rules".

 

[SMaturin]

The boat had several owners. As far as I know, the first one bought the boat in the UK and sailed her to Greece about 20 years ago. Since then the boat was always in Greece and had two more owners. Currently registered in the UK.
What would most probably be VAT evidence in this case? Does the boat's original invoice always tell about VAT paid or not? Would be great to see an example of such an invoice. Thanks.

 

[CNGusa]

Hello Smaturin.

greece has very complicated VAT proof laws. In short, you need to trace the history of VAT through all the owners, in order for the boat to be considered VAT paid. Even some commercial boats with Greek flags have a problem with proving vat paid. I have entered into 3 transactions and all have failed due to insufficient proof. You best bet is to consult with a reputable shipping lawyer in Greece to determine the status of VAT.

 

[Tranona]

The boat had several owners. As far as I know, the first one bought the boat in the UK and sailed her to Greece about 20 years ago. Since then the boat was always in Greece and had two more owners. Currently registered in the UK.
What would most probably be VAT evidence in this case? Does the boat's original invoice always tell about VAT paid or not? Would be great to see an example of such an invoice. Thanks.

OK, that changes things. Its VAT status is therefore determined by where it was located on 31/12/2020. If it was in Greece then it is considered EU VAT paid under the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement (and all the previous history is irrelevant).. The evidence you need is a letter from the yard where it was on that day confirming this. This is EU rules, and nothing to do with VAT problems related to Greek boats. You can freely circulate around the EU, but if you ever come back to the UK with the boat and are UK resident you will have to pay UK VAT. You can find a fuller description of how it works on either the RYA or Cruising Association websites. If you look on the liveaboard forum you will find posts by Chris Robb who is the Cruising Association person who deals with the Greek government. He knows the rules and how to deal with awkward Greek officials if necessary.

 

[SMaturin]

OK, that changes things. Its VAT status is therefore determined by where it was located on 31/12/2020. If it was in Greece then it is considered EU VAT paid under the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement (and all the previous history is irrelevant).. The evidence you need is a letter from the yard where it was on that day confirming this. This is EU rules, and nothing to do with VAT problems related to Greek boats. You can freely circulate around the EU, but if you ever come back to the UK with the boat and are UK resident you will have to pay UK VAT. You can find a fuller description of how it works on either the RYA or Cruising Association websites. If you look on the liveaboard forum you will find posts by Chris Robb who is the Cruising Association person who deals with the Greek government. He knows the rules and how to deal with awkward Greek officials if necessary.

For many years already, including 2020, the boat was all the time in Greece. I am not a UK resident and plan to sail to the UK only occasionally on short-term visits. I am in the process of buying this boat and will register it in Malaysia or Palau. Does it make any difference?

 

[Tranona]

No. Registration is nothing to do with VAT status. If you are visiting the UK as a non resident then you can use the Temporary Admission rules which allow for 18 months in UK which can be extended by leaving UK waters and re-entering with evidence that you have been out, for example a marina receipt in Cherbourg. If you wish to keep the EU VAT paid status you need to return within 3 years using the "Returned Goods Relief" rules.

You may well find Malaysian registration attracts attention from officials simply because of lack of familiarity. If you are eligible worth considering UK or Channel Islands Part 1 registration, particularly if the boat is already on the Part 1 register.

Good luck with your purchase.