Adetheheat
Member
How do I show vat has been paid on a boat? I have the bills of sale with the one when it was imported and sold by a dealer in the uk. But no actual proof. None of the bills of sale have dates on them. Anyone know how to get proof?
Vat on boat - has it been paid? Proof?
- Thread starter Adetheheat
- Start date
ash2020
Active member
I believe it's only after 1985 that is is a requirement. My boat was made in 1978 so I'm thinking it doesn't apply in my case.
StefanSG
Active member
Id like this confirmed too, sufficient proof for EU entry etc - (!972 boat with original paperwork)
Tranona
Well-known member
Basically unless you have the original invoice from the trader to the first owner there is no way of getting proof. If the boat was imported new and sold by the dealer then you could possibly contact the dealer (if they still exist) as they may have a copy. Any subsequent change in ownership between private owners does not involve VAT and the Bill of Sale (which should be dated!) is transfer of title and shows that the seller is stating it is clear of any claims against it. If this all took place in the UK then there is no reason why anybody would question whether VAT has been paid.
The responsibility for accounting for VAT lies with the VAT registered seller NOT the buyer or any subsequent owner. If you have the BoS from the builder to the dealer and the dealer to the first owner that is pretty good evidence that VAT was paid. There is no legal requirement to keep the evidence just as there is no legal requirement to keep evidence that you paid VAT on a television.
People get worked up about it, primarily because when we were in the EU, evidence of VAT payment in one of the member states was required to allow free circulation of the boat throughout the EU. However in reality because actual collection of VAT was the responsibility of individual states rarely was evidence sought unless the state you were visiting believed that an offence had been committed which usually revolved around business ownership, leasing arrangements or importing a boat from outside the EU.
However post Brexit this is largely irrelevant as if your boat was in the UK on 31/12 2020 it is considered UK VAT paid and no longer has EU free circulation. This will not stop people worrying about it - 30 years of "indoctrination" will take a long time to work its way out of the system.
Not a very satisfactory position, but does not seem to have any real impact on buying and selling boats, nor using them, including visiting the EU.
Tranona
Well-known member
You don't need anything to enter the EU as a third country boat. Your boat is pre VAT and was assumed "deemed VAT paid" under the accession terms of the Lisbon Treaty in 1992, but is now UK VAT paid under the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement. Provided your boat is correctly registered as a British Ship it may enter the EU and stay for up 18 months under EU Temporary admission rules.
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
And of course no one is going to enquire about the VAT status of a 1972 boat.
Tranona
Well-known member
Indeed, nor any boat unless there is suspicion that an offence has been committed, most commonly private imports.
lustyd
Well-known member
Do you want proof VAT was once paid, or proof of VAT status? Very different things. For the former you just need the receipt showing VAT details. For the latter you need proof VAT was paid, proof of location of the vessel in the intervening years, and proof it was never refunded (private bills of sale usually). If it's an older boat that was deemed VAT paid you'd still need to show it was never exported and imported if you really wanted to prove status. In theory an old wreck that is refurbed and sold by a business might also attract VAT.
lustyd
Well-known member
That depends. In law a boat that was completely replaced through maintenance or upgrade is the same boat, so a 1972 boat might be 100% brand new. Then there would be questions.
StefanSG
Active member
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Anecdotally the Greeks do not understand/believe/accept this. Several cases have been reported. My boat's age is right on the cusp, built 1984/5 but fortunately nobody has ever asked for proof of VAT paid
jwilson
Well-known member
If a UK boat now visits to the EU it is treated exactly like a boat from the USA or Australia or anywhere else. The boat can "visit" for 18 months, though the human owner may only be able to be there for 90 days at a time without a visa- this bit is a Schengen rule. If the boat stays more than 18 months you have "imported" it, and just as if you imported a boat from the USA or anywhere else outside the EU, you are required to pay VAT at whatever the rate is in the country it has been imported to.
The whole VAT thing has always been a big scare story with not much real evidence of any problems. For ordinary cruising temporary visits from UK boats it is now a complete non-issue.
The whole VAT thing has always been a big scare story with not much real evidence of any problems. For ordinary cruising temporary visits from UK boats it is now a complete non-issue.
Adetheheat
Member
Thanks everyone
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Oh, you don't know how stupid the Greek customs can be!
lustyd
Well-known member
Technically that’s not stupid it’s their job. Perhaps you’ve misunderstood the law regarding old boats and believe they are exempt from VAT?
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
I purchased my boat from a private owner via a broker. The only VAT I paid was on the brokers commission.
In fitting out the boat I either imported parts and paid duty and VAT on those parts and any locally purchased items from VT registered venders.
Thi would be the same as an old pre VAT) being rennervated VAT paid on any equipment and work by VAT registered.
suppliers
I employed the work men or did the work myself so paid permanent staff PAYE and charial workmen in cash (no PAYE)
In fitting out the boat I either imported parts and paid duty and VAT on those parts and any locally purchased items from VT registered venders.
Thi would be the same as an old pre VAT) being rennervated VAT paid on any equipment and work by VAT registered.
suppliers
I employed the work men or did the work myself so paid permanent staff PAYE and charial workmen in cash (no PAYE)
Sandy
Well-known member
I have written to my MP twice about this. All I got was some official pointing me to the legislation, which I had already read and pointed out to my MP. I've come to the conclusion that nobody knows.
Tranona
Well-known member
Chris is talking specifically about Greece where they have always had difficulty in coming to terms with EU VAT rules, particularly the pre 1985 exemption that came with the Lisbon treaty. Probably connected with the fact that they did not have VAT prior to 1992, nor indeed very many pleasure yachts it applied to.
Those of us with long memories dealing with VAT in Greece will remember it was only in 2003 that they finally implemented the rule of applying VAT to charter boats that were sold to private users whereas previously local offices were stamping the Bos VAT paid - without actually applying VAT. no prizes for guessing who was negatively affected by that, although I knew it would happen eventually, but at least I did not find out like some people I knew who were part way through buying a charter boat when the rule was enforced, adding 20% to their bill!
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
But still make up rules to suit themselves and to extract more money from those who don't know
Tranona
Well-known member
I thought everybody knew that there is no legal requirement in the UK to retain proof of VAT on the purchase of a new boat for private use.
