Vaccine ... every one or no one

[BurnitBlue]

Some news outlets are suggesting that to avoid a two teir travel structure, an inividuals vaccination will not be a reason for permission to travel until everyone is vaccinated. Seems to me that this is unworkable as a general rule because 100% would be impossible to account for anti-vaxers.

How do you think this will work. Obviously anti-vaxers will be denied permission, but what about the rest of us? When will having a vaccination certificate be an automatic permission to leave and enter other states. This could go on even into 2022 in poor countries.

 

[RJJ]

Some news outlets are suggesting that to avoid a two teir travel structure, an inividuals vaccination will not be a reason for permission to travel until everyone is vaccinated. Seems to me that this is unworkable as a general rule because 100% would be impossible to account for anti-vaxers.

How do you think this will work. Obviously anti-vaxers will be denied permission, but what about the rest of us? When will having a vaccination certificate be an automatic permission to leave and enter other states. This could go on even into 2022 in poor countries.

The big question remains - do vaccines prevent transmission, or only symptoms?

If you can be vaccinated but still carry and transmit doombug, then it may never be an "automatic" permission. Countries' protections would then rest on their internal situation: if everyone's been vaccinated, then it doesn't matter letting someone in. If (like NZ today) you've nobody that's protected and are depending on your external border for protection, then their vaccine is irrelevant.

Hopefully vaccines may prevent transmission as well as symptoms. Hopefully somebody's going to figure that out pretty soon!

 

[Chris_Robb]

The big question remains - do vaccines prevent transmission, or only symptoms?

If you can be vaccinated but still carry and transmit doombug, then it may never be an "automatic" permission. Countries' protections would then rest on their internal situation: if everyone's been vaccinated, then it doesn't matter letting someone in. If (like NZ today) you've nobody that's protected and are depending on your external border for protection, then their vaccine is irrelevant.

Hopefully vaccines may prevent transmission as well as symptoms. Hopefully somebody's going to figure that out pretty soon!

I can see individual countries looking at the Vaccination as a necessity to travel, couple with a quick test before take of or a PCR test within 72 hours of arriving in the destination. In which case our government wont have mush say in the matter!

people with out vaccination will no doubt have more hoops to jump through if they want to travel.

Should it be made compulsory - probably not - but it just might be made more difficult to travel if not vaccinated! I woudl certainly agree with that.

 

[BurnitBlue]

I can see individual countries looking at the Vaccination as a necessity to travel, couple with a quick test before take of or a PCR test within 72 hours of arriving in the destination. In which case our government wont have mush say in the matter!

people with out vaccination will no doubt have more hoops to jump through if they want to travel.

Should it be made compulsory - probably not - but it just might be made more difficult to travel if not vaccinated! I woudl certainly agree with that.

For me it is whatever comes first. I was hoping a vaccination would open borders soon for those over 50 years of age. But with the need to avoid preferential treatment for some but not for everyone, vaccination may not be the soonest. Fair enough I suppose. My particular situation revolves around a desire to exit the EU to the Caribbean in an exit stage left to use an RAF phrase.

 

[RupertW]

It would be irrational to have a mandatory vaccine proof for travel as every country has a different system of recording vaccines and it would be too easy to fake in the same way any rogue with a PDF editor can fake a PCR negative test certificate to travel now.

I think it’s more likely that travel will only become easier when vaccination drops the infection level in a country low enough for it to no longer be seen as a high risk. Of course by the genuinely correct approach of vaccinating in order of risk we will reach a stage where the number of symptomatic people will drop, leading to all their contacts not required to have a test, leading to an impression of low infection rates when the real situation is high infection but of symptomless people. Which is great for that country but dangerous for any countries they travel to.

As somebody who has had the vaccine, I must admit then when the 10 days of low efficacy is over, I emotionally feel I can do lots more without risking myself or others and although I will overcome that temptation, I hope, it will be a natural reaction for many.

 

[BurnitBlue]

It would be irrational to have a mandatory vaccine proof for travel as every country has a different system of recording vaccines and it would be too easy to fake in the same way any rogue with a PDF editor can fake a PCR negative test certificate to travel now.

I think it’s more likely that travel will only become easier when vaccination drops the infection level in a country low enough for it to no longer be seen as a high risk. Of course by the genuinely correct approach of vaccinating in order of risk we will reach a stage where the number of symptomatic people will drop, leading to all their contacts not required to have a test, leading to an impression of low infection rates when the real situation is high infection but of symptomless people. Which is great for that country but dangerous for any countries they travel to.

As somebody who has had the vaccine, I must admit then when the 10 days of low efficacy is over, I emotionally feel I can do lots more without risking myself or others and although I will overcome that temptation, I hope, it will be a natural reaction for many.

Maybe proof could be an embossed stamp in the passport, obtainable from Petty France or an official department.

I recall there was one jab in the past that left a tell-tale scar about the size of a dime or sixpence. I think it was the small-pox jab and it remained visible for years.

Certainly it is easy to forge, just about any document in this digital age so maybe a vaccination certificate will have to be backed up on an official register. Sweden has one called "person bevis" which is used in contracts for up to the minute register of details of individuals which can be requested by qualified groups.

I think that trust in individual integrity is not enough until the virus is gone from the planet.

 

[kingfisher]

For my country, I hope the rule for incoming travellers will be: either a recent (72hrs) PCR test + PLF form +test on day 1 and day 7 (which is the current rule) OR a vaccine certificate

you are still free to choose.

 

[BurnitBlue]

For my country, I hope the rule for incoming travellers will be: either a recent (72hrs) PCR test + PLF form +test on day 1 and day 7 (which is the current rule) OR a vaccine certificate

you are still free to choose.

I believe that only a vaccine certificate is safe. The rest of the tests PCR, PLF etc are basically only valid at the instant they are taken. They are practicslly out of date one hour after a person walked out of the testing centre. The vaccine certificate could be backed up by a secure accessable data base.

 

[nortada]

I believe that only a vaccine certificate is safe. The rest of the tests PCR, PLF etc are basically only valid at the instant they are taken. They are practicslly out of date one hour after a person walked out of the testing centre. The vaccine certificate could be backed up by a secure accessable data base.

Secure accessible data base - bit of an oxymoron?

I hear, when you are vaccinated in the U.K. you are given a form that confirms you have been vaccinated, with batch number, location and date.

Additionally, if you are registered with the NHS details of your vaccination are recorded electronically in your NHS records within 48 hours.

Thinking outside the box, if you have an ID card or are resident in the EU and have a biometric residents permit, it could be embedded there. Driving licenses could be another place to record it. To be scanned during travel.

Bit of drift but I understand, if you hold Portuguese Residency, when your passport is scanned it flags up to passport control the fact you are a resident. A similar system could be used to confirm you have been vaccinated.

The other way to look at it, herd immunity, however it is achieved, will reduce the COVID-19 pandemic to manageable proportions so, just like flu we will learn to live with Covid but possibly vaccinate the vulnerable and elderly annually.

Wonder how much the flu jab costs

 

[geem]

For me it is whatever comes first. I was hoping a vaccination would open borders soon for those over 50 years of age. But with the need to avoid preferential treatment for some but not for everyone, vaccination may not be the soonest. Fair enough I suppose. My particular situation revolves around a desire to exit the EU to the Caribbean in an exit stage left to use an RAF phrase.

No problem sailing there. Just weather routed friends across the pond. Arrived in Antigua. 17 days at sea counted as quarantine. Tested and all good to go

 

[BurnitBlue]

No problem sailing there. Just weather routed friends across the pond. Arrived in Antigua. 17 days at sea counted as quarantine. Tested and all good to go

The difficult bit is getting to Greece, then commisioning the boat with paint and a big tool box, then running a gauntlet of multiple enemy coastlines, keeping under enemy radar, and hoping I can get past the Canaries inside 90 days.

OK, the prize for success is freedom and good sailing, adventure, being allowed to sail in clean clear waters, walk on a beach without a tide-line of plastic bottles and broken flip-flops. Wait ... insn't there a seperate thread about this somewhere?

 

[Tony Cross]

For my country, I hope the rule for incoming travellers will be: either a recent (72hrs) PCR test + PLF form +test on day 1 and day 7 (which is the current rule) OR a vaccine certificate

you are still free to choose.

It's my understanding that this is what Greece plans to do...

 

[greeny]

For my country, I hope the rule for incoming travellers will be: either a recent (72hrs) PCR test + PLF form +test on day 1 and day 7 (which is the current rule) OR a vaccine certificate

you are still free to choose.

And if this becomes the case, I can see the reluctance of many anti-vaxers disappearing as there is a clear advantage to not having to PCR test every time you travel. So by taking this stance, governments can indirectly encourage the take up of the vaccine.

 

[syvictoria]

For my country, I hope the rule for incoming travellers will be: either a recent (72hrs) PCR test + PLF form +test on day 1 and day 7 (which is the current rule) OR a vaccine certificate

you are still free to choose.

I suppose that it largely depends upon whether it's keeping the hospitals clear of foreign cases or slowing the spread of the virus per se that's eventually deemed to be most important, together of course with a consensus as to whether or not those that have been vaccinated can still carry and spread the virus. If the vaccinated can still be spreaders, a vaccination cert. may turn out to be of little consequence when it comes to opening up travel. It would also be very unfair on the younger/middle aged population (not yet eligible for vaccination) and could therefore cause unrest.

As for an easily accessible database, I can see this potentially working within individual blocs, but something worldwide is extremely unlikely, and a huge can of worms in terms of future exploitation.

 

[geem]

I cant see the vaccine changing the protocol for entry to a country in the short to medium term. You can still have covid after vaccination. A test proves you don't have it. It is likely to by many months if not years before the test for covid gets dropped or new evidence emerges that shows you dont transmit the virus post vaccination.

 

[Graham376]

I cant see the vaccine changing the protocol for entry to a country in the short to medium term. You can still have covid after vaccination. A test proves you don't have it. It is likely to by many months if not years before the test for covid gets dropped or new evidence emerges that shows you dont transmit the virus post vaccination.

I agree. May well have been vaccinated but could still have been infected although no symptoms. None of the vaccines are 100% effective and we don't yet know what's going to happen with mutations. I think in the future it may be treated like TABC was years ago (may still be in some areas?) when annual boosters were necessary and recorded on certificate.

 

[saab96]

exit stage left to use an RAF phrase

Exit stage left pursued by bear - from Shakespeare's A Winter's Tale. And we are in the bloody middle of one

 

[Seastoke]

The difficult bit is getting to Greece, then commisioning the boat with paint and a big tool box, then running a gauntlet of multiple enemy coastlines, keeping under enemy radar, and hoping I can get past the Canaries inside 90 days.

OK, the prize for success is freedom and good sailing, adventure, being allowed to sail in clean clear waters, walk on a beach without a tide-line of plastic bottles and broken flip-flops. Wait ... insn't there a seperate thread about this somewhere?

Your dream of ,no shite on the beaches in the Carib is debateable.

 

[sailaboutvic]

don't you guys think when the time comes that the risk are lower no one going to be looking for any prove , just like no one ask if you had the jab for flu , or yellow fever

 

[BurnitBlue]

don't you guys think when the time comes that the risk are lower no one going to be looking for any prove , just like no one ask if you had the jab for flu , or yellow fever

Yes, except that flu and yellow fever, were medical problems compared to Covid which from the very biginning started as a political problem becaude of the China Connection. I wonder how much longer the politicians will hold on to this crowd control thing?

There is also the commercial side where the inexpensive Oxford Vaccine is being held back to favour the expensive German/USA vaccine. That is a politacal interference it seems.