Using Yacht Legs / Jeanneau Tonic

glennytots

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I have a Jeanneau Tonic 23 sloop which has a longish (2 metre) stub keel giving it a draft of 0.7 metres. It came with a set of yacht legs which I believe were original equipment. While I have enjoyed drying out in previous flat-bottomed yachts, I am nervous about using these legs and so have avoided doing so with the Tonic.

The Tonic's legs are heavy steel and the top of them clamps over the toe rail from above and are secured using a screwed pin which passes one of the holes in the toe rail. A hard rubber pad on the leg mates with (but is not secured to) the hull about 2 feet below this. The length of each leg is adjustable in about 4-6 inch increments. The legs each terminate in a base of about 6 inches square and lightweight lines go fore and aft from the bases to to the bow and stern to keep the legs vertical in that plain. So the only weight-bearing connection to the yacht is through the toe rail. Part of my nervousness due to the toerail showing some evidence of some past misadventures ie a small amount of distortion in places and in one instance the sawing away of the toerail to presumably release a errant leg.

My main concern is that the Tonic is a very lightweight boat albeit with a relatively heavy keel (around 500kg of the boats 1500kg). Might the crews weight moving around put excessive strain on the toerail especially as the boat inevitably would settle with a degree of list? Also I worry that any swinging of the yacht as it grounds or refloats (due to swell perhaps from a passing boat) might cause a leg to swing in or out-wards buckling the toerail.

Does anyone have experience with the use of these legs especially with the Tonic or a similar yacht? Can they advise on their general use and especially on how to rig them and on the range of circumstances and sea floors where their use is appropriate. Thanks.

(UPDATE: an older posting from a Tonic owner suggests that a couple of vertical u-bolts aligned bow to stern on the side deck, just inboard from the toe rail amidships are in fact to take the yacht legs, not the toe rail. That makes sense although they seem somewhat lightweight for the purpose. Because they are slightly inboard, they would give the legs a degree of flare which would make the load bearing leg more vertical in the event of drying at a list . Next time I visit the yacht I will examine what reinforcement there is under the side deck to allow these U-bolts to take that strain.).
 
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vyv_cox

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Can you post some photos to assist with advice on the fixing and toerails?

Most people are apprehensive before using legs, regardless of the boat type. In fact the load on the legs and their attachments is surprisingly low, as, despite the shape of a boat and the perception that the centre of gravity is high, in reality it lies somewhere in the keel. The legs carry a very small proportion of the overall mass of the boat. Photos of the arrangement on my boat are shown on my website, see the home page and more under Cruising>legs. There is a link to a site showing legs on a boat of similar size to yours at the bottom of this page.
 

glennytots

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Mr Cox

Thanks for the reply. As per the update to my initial posting, it would seem that (to my relief) the toe rail is not used. The relatively puny nature of the (previously overlooked) u-bolts would be explained by your point about the c.o.g. and unexpectedly low forces involved.

I plan to visit the boat next week and will post some photos of the legs in place.
 

Seajet

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You can get some pretty awful side loading on legs, not due to CG but wind & waves, & the wind direction very often changes while a boat is aground at low water.

Also seabed consistency is unreliable, at my drying moorings the twin keelers often dry out on their ear as one keel is on shingle, the other on soft mud...I'd never leave a boat unattended with legs rigged, and if aboard would be keeping a very close eye on things; nb it is traditional to rig a line from the bottom of the leg fore & aft, to prevent it folding longitudinally.
 

Tranona

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Just come back from Carteret in France. Plenty of boats in the drying part of the harbour using legs as a matter of course, including many fin keelers.

Yes, that is very common all over western France, even in the estuaries. Many small French boats such as the Tonic were fitted with legs. Moorings are often fore and aft or one end to a quay and the other to a mooring block so the boat settles in a similar place each tide. For occasional use the normal precautions of checking the nature of the seabed will apply.
 

vyv_cox

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I'd never leave a boat unattended with legs rigged, and if aboard would be keeping a very close eye on things; nb it is traditional to rig a line from the bottom of the leg fore & aft, to prevent it folding longitudinally.

Some years ago two deep-keeled Sigma 33s were berthed permanently on Yacht Legs at Ramsey, IOM, a harbour that dries on every tide. I have not visited the island for a long time so don't know if they are still there. I knew a man who kept a fin keeler on legs at Traeth Coch, which dries to a considerable extent, half a mile or more, on every tide. Perfectly safe provided a small clearance is allowed beneath one of the legs.

Yacht Legs come with the attachments for fore and aft lines and instructions to use them. There is a picture of my boat using them on my home page.
 

glennytots

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Using Yacht Legs / Jeanneau Tonic - Photos added

The legs are set such that they are both about 2 inches short of the keel. I'm interested to know if anyone thinks this should be adjusted (the legs permit length adjustment in 4 inch steps). The yacht has an inherent list to starboard on account of the offset outboard and the weight of various internal fittings so it would most probably dry out with the weight on the starboard leg. Should this one be made shorter. Any general comments on the way they are rigged (other than I need to connect the fore/aft lines). The port leg shows a repair after some past adventure...seems solid enough.
 

Seajet

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If you'e really going to leave the boat unattended on those legs, I'd suggest at least increasing the area of the topsides pads.

Most legs I've seen have a much larger bearing area, and usually bolt through the ( reinforced ) topsides.

A survey of the seabed she's going to settle on would be a rather good idea, as softer mud one side would be a bad thing; a fore & aft mooring to keep her roughly in the same place would help, and it would not present any extra 'what if it's broadside to the wind ?' problem; as I mentioned earlier, the wind very often changes once a boat is aground so will be on the beam when refloating.

I do realise one rarely gets to specify swinging or fore & aft mooring...
 

cliffdale

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I used to have a lifting keel Jeanneau Eolia, about 24.5'. It had the identical legs as in you photo. During winter, she was mud berthed and would float on the top of spring tides.

There was never a problem with the legs or how the boat dried out. 2 of us on board could walk round and stand on the bow without any sign of the boat moving.

I would have confidence in the legs.

Cliff
 

cliffdale

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They were identical, even the eye bolt on the deck. The mud berth was hard mud. The boat always stayed upright. The only problem I had was stones got trapped in the lifting keel and the keel needed a hard knock to get it down. You could do this from inside the saloon through the winch mechanism.
 

rich

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Hermees has been sitting on legs since 1963, no problem,:)
legd.jpg
 

vyv_cox

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The legs are set such that they are both about 2 inches short of the keel. I'm interested to know if anyone thinks this should be adjusted (the legs permit length adjustment in 4 inch steps). The yacht has an inherent list to starboard on account of the offset outboard and the weight of various internal fittings so it would most probably dry out with the weight on the starboard leg. Should this one be made shorter. Any general comments on the way they are rigged (other than I need to connect the fore/aft lines). The port leg shows a repair after some past adventure...seems solid enough.

The man I knew who moored permanently on legs told me that success depended upon not having keel and both legs at the same ground level. He kept a difference of about a foot, six inches per side, so the boat always dried leaning a little but did not trip over one leg. The boat was about 32 feet from memory, heavy, so I guess your 2 inches is about right.

My yacht legs have a larger pad, foam wrapped, bearing on the hull. Might be worth reviewing.

Otherwise I would check the pad beneath the U bolts for size and condition but the general setup looks strong and secure.
 

maxcampbell

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Hanging legs

I've been considering legs for my 20' long keeler. The Jeanneau solution hangs the boat off the eye pads, with a non-rigid joint, whereas it looks as though Hermees' legs bear upwards under the gunwhale.

I had been thinking about attaching legs with line down to the aft chainstay, thus acheiving a similar result to the Jeanneau. The leg could then extend upwards along the shroud, and (as well as the lines from the foot to bow & stern) loose attchment to the shroud would help keep the leg in position. You could adjust the height of each leg by adjusting the length of the cord

Can anyone see a problem with this?
 

Seajet

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One thing, I found out the hard way that shrouds & their fittings don't like side loads !

That was a U bolt chainplate which failed under light load, a while before I'd lashed the boat tight to a pontoon by that fitting when climbing the mast.

It was almost certainly a crystaline metallurgy fault, but I think my side load was the last straw.
 
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