USA to Med: what lic req'd to run 82' yacht?

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Danvilletim

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We just sold our 62 sportfish. I currently hold a USCG opus 6 pack license lic. We are considering purchasing a 82 predator in France. What credintials are needed for purely family use?

We will likely have crew for some time, but would like to do some trips with out.
 
There’s some strange “ tonnage “ measurements in some flagging jurisdictions .
It’s possibke to get the reg cert to officially record less than 24 M .

Over 24 M I think a whole new set of tickets apply - commercial stuff .

I,am pretty sure a Pred 82,s part 1 red ensign group cert have a figure less than 24 M to flash to authorities.
I think less than 24 M on the reg doc and you will be ok generally .
You have not said which flag ?

It would help if you say what flag you intend to use , and google there measuring method .

In France under a French flag a permit du Mer is needed to operate anything over 6 Hp up to 20M

Some builders are a bit crafty to get it under the 24 M L tonnage , take a Ferretti 95 , they make it with a separate nose ( bow ) bow cone ) —- which presume is added on after the official tonnage measurement ?? Or defined as a movable item ,what ever by building it that way it can end up with a less than 24 reg cert - great

Does your USCG , have on it what you are entitled to operate with regard to L ?
I have the French Permit d Mer , on the back there’s a brief list of what it entitles the operator .Less than 20M is one of them .I am pretty sure if the reg doc said 19,9M I would be Ok .But I,d be surprised if a Pred 82 could sneak under 20 M tonnage ?

We have been stopped a few times in the SoF by officialdom, they do look at the reg doc , insurance doc , ask where you are from and where you are going , our boat is on a Red ensign at the moment the “ticket “ falls on the table along with the other docs for them to rummage .
To only thing so far they have not asked for is any VAT paid proof .

If it’s any consolation the permit d Mer course is approx 3/4 dsys say a week , it’s in French though the exam at the end , but imho saves a lot of explaining of equivalents and of course these days ( Brexit ) future proofs you if you have a U.K. passport .

Your license says up to 100 tons , so you should be Ok in theory , the reason I say theory is the French are in there own little bureaucratic bubble .
As said get it flagged so your reg doc says anything less than 24 M .
 
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Pred 82 is comfortably under 24m load line length

You will need an ICC. Strictly, if your flag state doesn't demand it then you don't, but no french inspector will agree that so it is much easier to comply than argue. And they do inspect, maybe once/year, randomly while you're at anchor. See if your USCG ticket qualifies you (or already is) an ICC = international certificate of competence. Get one from USCG authorities if possible.

If not, when you get to France you can hire an EN speaking instructor for 2 days tuition on your own boat and get the ticket that way. Very easy. Don't bother with the French permit de Mer unless you have fluent French and enjoy sitting in a scruffy small boat for 3 days.

Good luck. Where in France? I've had 80 footers in south of France as owner-driver for 6 years and the cruising is great.
 
jfm said:
Pred 82 is comfortably under 24m load line length

You will need an ICC. Strictly, if your flag state doesn't demand it then you don't, but no french inspector will agree that so it is much easier to comply than argue. And they do inspect, maybe once/year, randomly while you're at anchor. See if your USCG ticket qualifies you (or already is) an ICC = international certificate of competence. Get one from USCG authorities if possible.

If not, when you get to France you can hire an EN speaking instructor for 2 days tuition on your own boat and get the ticket that way. Very easy. Don't bother with the French permit de Mer unless you have fluent French and enjoy sitting in a scruffy small boat for 3 days.

Good luck. Where in France? I've had 80 footers in south of France as owner-driver for 6 years and the cruising is great.
Click to expand...

http://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/boating-abroad/icc/Pages/what-is-the-icc.aspx
 
jfm said:
That is a uk website. Dan is in USA and already has USCG licence, so as a first step he might want to deal with USCG, and get an ICC from them, if possible. If that doesn't work then sure he needs a foreign solution e.g. ICC issued by RYA.
Click to expand...

Yes, but if you bother to read it, it explains the UN resolution rules.
 
Portofino said:
There’s some strange “ tonnage “ measurements in some flagging jurisdictions .
It’s possibke to get the reg cert to officially record less than 24 M .

Over 24 M I think a whole new set of tickets apply - commercial stuff .

I,am pretty sure a Pred 82,s part 1 red ensign group cert have a figure less than 24 M to flash to authorities.
I think less than 24 M on the reg doc and you will be ok generally .
You have not said which flag ?

It would help if you say what flag you intend to use , and google there measuring method .

In France under a French flag a permit du Mer is needed to operate anything over 6 Hp up to 20M

Some builders are a bit crafty to get it under the 24 M L tonnage , take a Ferretti 95 , they make it with a separate nose ( bow ) bow cone ) —- which presume is added on after the official tonnage measurement ?? Or defined as a movable item ,what ever by building it that way it can end up with a less than 24 reg cert - great

Does your USCG , have on it what you are entitled to operate with regard to L ?
I have the French Permit d Mer , on the back there’s a brief list of what it entitles the operator .Less than 20M is one of them .I am pretty sure if the reg doc said 19,9M I would be Ok .But I,d be surprised if a Pred 82 could sneak under 20 M tonnage ?

We have been stopped a few times in the SoF by officialdom, they do look at the reg doc , insurance doc , ask where you are from and where you are going , our boat is on a Red ensign at the moment the “ticket “ falls on the table along with the other docs for them to rummage .
To only thing so far they have not asked for is any VAT paid proof .

If it’s any consolation the permit d Mer course is approx 3/4 dsys say a week , it’s in French though the exam at the end , but imho saves a lot of explaining of equivalents and of course these days ( Brexit ) future proofs you if you have a U.K. passport .

Your license says up to 100 tons , so you should be Ok in theory , the reason I say theory is the French are in there own little bureaucratic bubble .
As said get it flagged so your reg doc says anything less than 24 M .
Click to expand...
I think the 20m length restriction, in France, only applies to their inland water permits. The only restriction is the distance away from a place of safety and that it’s a pleasure craft
 
Danvilletim said:
We just sold our 62 sportfish. I currently hold a USCG opus 6 pack license lic. We are considering purchasing a 82 predator in France. What credintials are needed for purely family use?

We will likely have crew for some time, but would like to do some trips with out.
Click to expand...

Hello and welcome to the Forum. There is a great deal of accumulated knowledge here which I am sure we all hope will be on benefit to you.

To assist the members (forumites) to assist you with your query, it would be very helpful if you could say;

a) What flag will the boat be registered under (USA, GB, FRA etc)
b) What your nationality is
 
Bouba said:
I think the 20m length restriction, in France, only applies to their inland water permits. The only restriction is the distance away from a place of safety and that it’s a pleasure craft
Click to expand...

Would seem so now .
Mines a pre 2008 Vs.
They reshuffled the deck in 2008 and seemingly removed the L on sea boats ( keeping it on inland ) .Great :encouragement:
Does that mean none commercial I can operate say a Prinny 155 Blush ? In French waters .Private use only .

That’s all the more reason for a Permis Mer Cotier or Hauturier .

Also re examining the various RYA links and sub links in them kindly posted by alant ^^^ ,
It would seem to me as if the ICC was intended for passage ease ,not as a permanent equivalent in the country where the boat is kept .Happy to stand corrected btw .

It’s my understanding if the boats basically permanently based in a country then despite hiding under the flag rules , ( flag could be anywhere ) you are supposed to comply with the local rules .

That’s why I fast forwarded the monopoly board to so speak to collect £200 as Iwent past GO :)

In other words sat the French examine , complying with there rules .

As I said spill my permis Cotier on the table to the FR officialdom I get greeted with , “ Bon , Tres bien “

Did not sit the Hauturier ( it’s a written only 3/4 days add on ) as when stopped we are always within the 11 km or what ever limet any how .
These days one gets terribly forgetful how far we have been “ officer “ :) —- If it becomes a REAL issue ,then so what I,ll sit it and add it on - no biggie
 
Portofino said:
It’s my understanding if the boats basically permanently based in a country then despite hiding under the flag rules , ( flag could be anywhere ) you are supposed to comply with the local rules .
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, although in some states that may be the case. However, most states respect flag rules for visitors even though they have different rules for residents or citizens.

You are right the ICC is intended for visitors and non residents to show that they have a minimum level of competence.
 
Reminds me of top trumps the 70 ,s card game —- with only 3 cards

USCG
ICC
Permis Cotier ( Hauturier)

I know which one trumps which :). If your boat is kept in France permanently
 
alant said:
Live in ignorance then.
Click to expand...

Alan, point taken, and thanks for making it, re your comment above that the page you linked to describes the resolution and analysis behind ICC very well.
On hurricane's general comment, I agree with him. There is plenty of weak legal advice on RYA website and they ought to raise their game. Not following what they say or not reading it isn't "living in ignorance" imho. No worries/first world problems, and all that.
 
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