USA Racing Tragedy Impacts Across the Pond

USCG - Have now called off search

Seajet:
Harnesses - typically not worn by racers out here especially with 8 on deck in a 38' boat

Inshore - the island group are very rocky outcroppings located approximately
26nm west of SF Bay. The normal Ocean depths are interrupted by the islands in this area. Since that is the rounding mark for the race, racers usually pass nearby on port or starboard or either depending on that particular racing instructions. It appears (guessing by most) that the wave / swell / wind action, which was up that day after a stormy few days, pushed the boat closer to the shallower water and the rocks, lee shore at that point. Sounds like the combination of the conditions, area and a couple of larger waves/swells at the wrong time triggered the accident as they were attempting to round the area & start heading back to the Golden Gate Bridge.

Here's link for chart of the area
http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/18645.shtml
 
Chuteman,

very sad to see the search has been called off.

I'm aware of the habits of racing crews, both re harnesses and closely rounding marks; as I mentioned it's so very easy for me to say with hindsight from a comfy chair, but sometimes people are 'racing team' when they ought to be 'seamen', it happens a lot here and of course most of the time it works out fine.
 
Yup, Sad Ending indeed

Seajet
Yes, search called off. It was going on for 30+ hrs, 5000 sq miles, 3 helos, 1 fixed wing 3-4 ships but still open ocean except the rocky islands plus water temps just about 10C and air temps below that at night......No one especially the families like to hear when the search has been called off but the USCG has so much experience with these type incidents & when linked to the conditions....

Update that includes name of Irish Crew member
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/04/16/BASV1O3UU5.DTL

It will be interesting to see if a formal report is produced like the Rambler (fastnet) incident and the deadly accident last summer on Lake Michigan
 
Chuteman said:
In my neck of the woods, so familiar with the incident area

Condolences to Family & Friends

BTW - Crew Details are included except lost sailor from Ireland

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports-headlines/ci_20401639/1-dead-4-missing-yacht-race-accident

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/04/15/MN6R1O3L4D.DTL
Click to expand...

Horrible news and frightening too. The islands have apparently the highest concentration of Great Whites in the world. Or so a naturalist on a whale watching outing explained.
 
An Eyewitness Report

Not as detailed or complete but this is from another boat in the race that describes the conditions that day & observations at the incident site. Sounds like they were rounding clockwise - vs the boat involved which was rounding the other way island(s) to port and lee shore

http://neversealand.downtothesea.org/2012/04/16/oyra-farallones-2012/

Sybarite - Not sure about the most in the world, thought it was South Africa but yes, many sharks due to high concentration of wildlife i.e; Seals, fish, etc

But between the cold water, rough waters, current & unfriendly rocks there are many dangers in that area.
http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/img_lectronic_800/2012-04-16_7538_LowSpeedChaseLL.jpg
 
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Personal Stories about the Victims

Family & Friends comment about those lost at sea + add'l photos of the boat that has now been pushed much higher on the rocks but still in tack (although port side hull is hidden)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/04/16/BASV1O3UU5.DTL

Irishman has 2 children & wife - working at research laboratory in SF Bay area

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Seajet - did not respond to your second comment about harnesses - A few years ago, I did a similar race around the same area & we were not wearing them. in Fact, all the races I've been in, no one wears them. Movement around a racing boat with that many people clipped on would take lots of practice & patience.
Even the Volvo racers don't wear in most pictures I've seen. Some racers don't even wear PFDs but lately many racing orgs have made them mandatory especially in longer, overnight or known challenging areas.
Not saying it's right or wrong, just the way things are. It's being mentioned by a few people quietly but most focus at the moment is honoring/remembering those that were lost.
 
So sad. Condolences and heartfelt wishes to all family and friends involved.

Sadly some of the racing fraternity tend to sacrifice seamanship for speed. How many remember the fastnet tragedy. The only boats, which lost crews, were the ones which carried on racing in very bad conditions. Cruising boats and those, which shortened sail and retired, were not harmed. To be that close to a lee shore in those contitions can not be good seamanship.
 
Wonder if we will ever know

Digbydog - Will be interesting to see if an investigation / report is done.
Especially in the litigious USA. Without direct speculation, they were sailing in the conditions for more than a couple of hours to get there & more than likely it was not the first time around the islands.
I'll pass on any other comments about woulda, coulda, shoulda - "For the grace of god go I"
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Harnesses/Tethers - remembered more - Rambler capsize '11 Fastnet - don't think most, if not all, were wearing - luckily all were rescued.

Wingnuts capsize - '11 Mackinac - The crew - most, if not all, were using tethers and the 2 dead crew members were still clipped in when recovered. Story / report including one crew being freed by another crew member who dove back under to rescue.

So the use (I do when I deem it necessary) has value & can save lives but the type, quality, release gear and ability to execute in stressful or injured circumstances make it less than a guaranteed solution - Although I do believe that it is 100% better to stay in the boat than to get ejected or slip off no matter the conditions.

There were very detailed reports done on both these events by US Sailing and the reports have been published - lessons for all.

The topic of PLBs has also been raised which some cruisers have also begun to use in addition or instead of EPIRBs.
 
I've done a Fastnet...

...and wore a harness and tether whenever I came on deck. I always felt safer with this than without it and had a hook on my chest to allow release if necessary. We were 8 on board, so there were occasional tangles amongst our tethers, but we always felt it was better to be attached and tangled than not attached at all.
 
As rallyveteran says, the hook at the chest end of a harness line is relevant; when harnesses first began to be used, they tended to be spliced on at the wearer end with just one clip at the other.

After a few people died and / or had close shaves being dragged down with quick sinking boats, it seemed a good idea to have a hook at the wearer end too.

As for going in unconscious, or quickly becoming so, I can't see much hope uness a fellow crew can come to the rescue - maybe a while into the future there may be some sort of hydrostatic / tension release but getting it to only work when required would take some doing...
 
Chuteman said:
Sounds like the combination of the conditions, area and a couple of larger waves/swells at the wrong time triggered the accident as they were attempting to round the area & start heading back to the Golden Gate Bridge.
Click to expand...

Not really chuteman. Sounds like the skipper made a misjudgement in his desire to do well in the race and sailed too close to the rocks for the conditions. Hit by inshore breaking waves and then hit the rocks themselves. A very sad and very unlucky result.

We all make misjudgements ( there are a number every year where people hit submerged objects in the RTIR hare) but rarely do they have such dreadful consequences.

You cant tie on whilst racing with 8 people on board a 38 footer.
 
You cant tie on whilst racing with 8 people on board a 38 footer.

Bosun,

I have to argue with that ( though sadly agree with your summation of going in too close ) - there has to come a time when one stops racing and becomes a seaman, and harnesses on; probably among racing types it would require an order from the skipper to avoid 'looking soft'.

If racing crews can't operate in moderately rough conditions with harnesses, a whole rethink including boat design is called for; this is the 21st century in expensive sailed-for-sport yachts, not the 19th Century taking barely paid topmen around Cape Horn !

We all know how hard it is to keep and train a crew already; I'm suggesting it might be raised a notch further, to serious standards of say firefighters or military, ie choreographed and practiced.

I also think there's a place for such deck / harness systems as 'Latchway',possibly multiple lines & cars on the foredeck - I have no connection, not trying to sell the kit !

I am well aware of what multiple lines on a foredeck mean, just pitching in a vague idea.
 
Trying to be Respectful

Bosun Higgs said:
Not really chuteman. Sounds like the skipper made a misjudgement in his desire to do well in the race and sailed too close to the rocks for the conditions. Hit by inshore breaking waves and then hit the rocks themselves. A very sad and very unlucky result.

We all make misjudgements ( there are a number every year where people hit submerged objects in the RTIR hare) but rarely do they have such dreadful consequences.

You cant tie on whilst racing with 8 people on board a 38 footer.
Click to expand...

Bosun H - I intentionally left my comments open to avoid any definitive indictment especially since I was not there & giving respect to the crew. There are reports that they were following another boat's track yet got hit with a different wave.

As Skippers, we all have our own interpretation of what is too close to other boats and objects. Would I have been that close, no.....not that day. and yes, we all make miscalculations with varying results some are fatal.

There was the incident last fall in the Atlantic near Bermuda where a couple began sailing again(Island Packet 36-38) after being hove-to due to bad weather, the wife was at the helm without a tether or PFD, wave hit and she was ejected. Husband tried to recover her but she was unable to reach MOB line and vanished. There is a long list of events that in hindsight are much clearer.
-------------------------------------------------
Tethers - can it be done in a racing boat - absolutely. Is it done a lot? probably not as much as it could/should.
 
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Hindsight is wonderful, but I think the message from the 1979 Fastnet to this tragedy is to keep clipped on in anything remotely like worrying conditions - personally I think this call is down to a careful skipper, so as to alleviate the prospect of crews worrying about the macho element; maybe something could be done - ie race markers and maybe penalties for being too bold ??? - might be possible, but the overall message must be 'Harness On'.

Steering too close to rocks on a lee shore has been tried before. :rolleyes:
 
Seajet said:
You cant tie on whilst racing with 8 people on board a 38 footer.

Bosun,

I have to argue with that ( though sadly agree with your summation of going in too close ) - there has to come a time when one stops racing and becomes a seaman, and harnesses on
Click to expand...

Got to agree with that.


Seajet said:
If racing crews can't operate in moderately rough conditions with harnesses, a whole rethink including boat design is called for
Click to expand...

Depends very much on the sort of racing involved, and in this case they probably could have harnessed on assuming a long time between tacks. But when they tack those on the rail ( and with 8 on board that would be maybe 5 ) would have to unhook and re-hook. If they were doing short tacks to round the island, it would be impractical. In fact it could even be dangerous with lots of tethers and lines being used.

Trouble is we are speculating without any detailed info. The suggestion is that the winds were 20 - 25 knots which is hardly survival conditions in a 38 footer. Or even tie on conditions. So they must have been hit by some serious sized breaking waves presumably because of shallow water close inshore.
 
Live Free or Die - NH Motto

Seajet said:
Hindsight is wonderful, but I think the message from the 1979 Fastnet to this tragedy is to keep clipped on in anything remotely like worrying conditions - personally I think this call is down to a careful skipper, so as to alleviate the prospect of crews worrying about the macho element; maybe something could be done - ie race markers and maybe penalties for being too bold ??? - might be possible, but the overall message must be 'Harness On'.

Steering too close to rocks on a lee shore has been tried before. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Freedom is also wonderful - each sailor on that boat and every boat takes responsibility (consciously or unconsciously) + whatever steps they feel are necessary to protect themselves which includes signing on with a particular Captain/crew.
We all know what conditions, actions & gear that can increase/decrease protection/safety. Yet we all personally choose, observe or read about a wide range of choices being made by sailors around the world. Luckily most make it back to port unscathed or with just a scare + valuable lesson learned. Unfortunately, a few don't and they present a picture of mortality & other lessons for all of us to draw from before our next voyage or every voyage.

Fair Winds to all
 
Freedom is also wonderful -

Not on my boat it isn't, if I say hook on they hook on !

The skipper should make these calls, otherwise a macho 'I'm not hooking on until he does' mindset is likely to develop, especially in racing crews.
 
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Still Freedom

Not to belabor because I think we agree.

The Captain has the Freedom to set the rules & the crew has the Freedom to choose which Captain & Boat to sign onto........some people sign onto boats or Captains sign crew on without FULL disclosure - thus disagreements arise at sea or when an incident takes place - blame starts flying which could have been avoided. Often Captain and/or Crew do not declare = being polite but when it comes to risk......no time to be polite.

If a Captain likes to take risks or sail in rough weather & You don't, avoid that Captain & boat. That's why I cringe when You see solicitations for Crew or Boats because You wonder if those detailed discussions are really taking place. But then again, that's Freedom

There's only one Captain on the ship and the plane to get to my ship.:D
 
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