Urgent request for legal advice

Rivers & creeks

Rivers & creeks

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This is really urgent. On Saturday we purchased our new (old) yacht. The yacht is part 1 registered. I have checked that the owner owns it if you see what I mean and we completed the standard RYA bill of sale with a witness to sign it and he handed over the part 1 registration. I called the MCA yesterday to check the process of putting her in our name and apparently there is a special MCA form for Part 1 yachts and I cannot use the RYA form to change ownership. I contacted the (previous) owner and he was very apologetic and promised to complete it. But now I'm having kittens, the cheque clears tomorrow but do we own the boat? Is the RYA bill of sale meaningless if he hasn't used the MCA form?

Help much appreciated.
 
As far as I'm aware (and I'm NOT a solicitor), a contract is deemed to be made once the seller has made an offer to sell and you have made an offer to buy that both of you have agreed upon. The Bill of Sale may not be valid for a Part I transfer, but it does record that you have paid an agreed sum for the vessel, which has been accepted by the vendor and witneesed by an independent third party.

I believe, in law, it's a concrete sale. Disconcerting, nevertheless... <:)
 
If you have proof of payment to the previous legal owner, then you own the boat IMHO.
Pt. 1 isn't absolute proof of ownership anyway.
Your lack of MCA form may complicate transfer of your ownership onto the register, if that's what you want to do, but nothing else.
Add:- You can download the MCA form. What's to stop you and the vendor replacing the RYA form with this to satisfy the Register?
Then all you need to do is pay their transfer fee.
 
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If you are in RYA ring legal dept, if your not a member join and as a member you are eligible for legal assistance free.

They have a legal team.
 
I think yes call the RYA but I would guess that your ability to register the boat or not, have not formed part of the contract.
You paid him, you own the boat. The difficulties here on in are yours not the old owner. That said, he said he would sign papers so I'd think all is well.

Fingers crossed for you.
 
Some helpful and reassuring posts, thanks. What worries me is if you can even sell a part 1 registered yacht without using that form, is there discrete law attached to part 1 sales? But surely normal contract law applies? And what happens if someone dies owning a part 1 yacht - at some point it's going to have to be registered in a new owners name without a sale form? Aaaaah!
 
Relax, they are just saying that you need to get the seller to fill in their paperwork before they will transfer the registration. It doesn't affect the sale or the ownership. I couldn't afford the 50squid registration transfer fee & then mislaid my Bill of sale. Consequently, my Part1 wasn't put in my name for about 5 years after I bought it.

It is not important, follow it up in your own time as & when you can if you want to remain Pt1 registered. Or forget the whole thing & go for SSR for a fraction of the cost.

In the case of death, I suspect a death cert will allow the estate to handle the sale.
 
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Black Kipper said:
Some helpful and reassuring posts, thanks. What worries me is if you can even sell a part 1 registered yacht without using that form, is there discrete law attached to part 1 sales? But surely normal contract law applies? And what happens if someone dies owning a part 1 yacht - at some point it's going to have to be registered in a new owners name without a sale form? Aaaaah!
Click to expand...

i sold my previous boat privately 13 yrs ago using the RYA contract, she was also part 1
 
Searush said:
Relax, they are just saying that you need to get the seller to fill in their paperwork before they will transfer the registration. It doesn't affect the sale or the ownership. I couldn't afford the 50squid registration transfer fee & then mislaid my Bill of sale. Consequently, my Part1 wasn't put in my name for about 5 years after I bought it.

It is not important, follow it up in your own time as & when you can if you want to remain Pt1 registered. Or forget the whole thing & go for SSR for a fraction of the cost.
Click to expand...

That's what I meant :o
 
I think that your only problem could be if a marine morgage is registered against the boat.

There is a chap on the forum named jonic who is a broker and people have spoken very highly of him, you will have seen his posts. Here is his profile

http://www.ybw.com/forums/member.php?u=893.

If you need reassurance perhaps you should pm him. He was online a few minutes ago. In your situation I would consider any fee for advice may be money well spent.

Good Luck
Paul
 
MrCramp said:
I think that your only problem could be if a marine morgage is registered against the boat.

There is a chap on the forum named jonic who is a broker and people have spoken very highly of him, you will have seen his posts. Here is his profile

http://www.ybw.com/forums/member.php?u=893.

If you need reassurance perhaps you should pm him. He was online a few minutes ago. In your situation I would consider any fee for advice may be money well spent.

Good Luck
Paul
Click to expand...


I think that your only problem could be if a marine mortgage is registered against the boat.


that is wot i said :rolleyes:
or other debt ie yard dues ect
 
Don't worry the RYA Bill of Sale will transfer ownership to you but for part 1 the seller should really have used the one found here http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Boatingandtravellingbywater/PleasureCraft/DG_180557.

Ensure it is filled in correctly by the transferor (seller), the registry are very pedantic about names and addresses matching exactly to the ones that are on the current certificate.

Make sure the witnesses are not family members.

Have a separate witness for each transferor (seller) if more than one owner.

Ensure all 64 shares are transferred.

Play close attention to the paragraph referring to mortgages and ensure only the bit in brackets is deleted and initialled if applicable NOT the whole paragraph as so often happens.



Prior to transfer and payment you can apply for a transcript of registry at a cost of £24 to check the ownership details and registered mortgages.
There is no online facility. You send the MCA an email with contact details and they call you for payment and then send the transcript, it takes a few days but it's a bit late for that now.

All part of the service with a broker :)

However I suspect nothing untoward is going on and the seller does not know the proper procedure rather than trying to sell something he does not own or has borrowed against.

Speak to the registry again but make sure you ask for PART 1 PLEASURE VESSELS on 02920448800

I'm sure you will be fine and it will get sorted with minimum fuss. Look forward to enjoying your new boat.
 
I assumed too old for a marine mortgage (1977) and I've met the yard manager who confirms all paid up including lift-in. Checked ownership first.

Damn paperwork.
 
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Black Kipper said:
Is there an online check to see who owns a part 1 yacht?
Click to expand...

Presumably you did your search with the registrar before parting with your money. That is the whole idea of buying a Part 1 registered boat - you have pretty good (but not foolproof) means of checking there are no charges registered against the boat before you buy it.

Anyway, your Bill of Sale means that the transfer of title is quite legal, but you are relying on the seller's declaration there are no charges against the boat. If you want to register the boat on Part 1 you have to follow the correct procedure and use the correct Bill of Sale, otherwise the registrar won't be able to enter the change on the register. If you don't want to continue the Part 1 registration just put it on the SSR, but that would not be a good idea as registering it on Part 1 at a later date is time consuming and potentially expensive.
 
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