Upgrading a 26 - 30 foot "Classic Plastic" for extended crusiing - The Essentials.

Add in the possibility that the engine has been neglected and you end up doubling your purchase price. No one can do a whole boat guesstimate with any accuracy, but you can price up the individual items, and they will soon add up. Refitting an older boat is unlikely to make economic sense unless it really is the classic boat of your dreams, and you can do most of the work yourself.

P.S I think SaltyJohn of these parts who bought an old boat of about 25 feet a year or two back, but if I remember correctly he paid hundreds, not thousands, and at that sort of price you probably could afford to pay a bit for sails etc.
 
Last edited:
If you have dreams to "get out there" just do it.

As for refurbishment of boats; this chap - http://www.solotheamericas.org/ has just completed a circumnavigation of the America's via the horn and the NE passage.

From what I understand in a bog standard boat/mildly modified boat. It would appear not even a sprayhood!

Your quite right that there are some boats out there with attractive prices. Pick a solid design with good sails, engine & hull and it will see you through the summer at minimal expense.

Next winter, when you pull her out, you will hopefully have a good number of miles under your belt and have a far better idea of the work needing done before setting off to chase your dreams.

You will also be less likely to waste money where it's not needed.

a simple question; how handy are you at hands on stuff? doing your own work will have a large impact (reduction) in your overall spend.
 
You'll probably spend on the wrong side of £10K to do anything resembling a complete and proper job if you do everything yourself.

Have a look at these photos and you'll find it hard to see where all the money went, but it did and we weren't lavish, just very thorough. For a project such as the one above, allow around 1000 hours for labour at a reasonably gentle weekend pace.

Bear in mind though that you effectively have a new boat at then end of it, not a newish looking 10 year old one which is likely to be in need of sails, running and standing rigging, etc. in the near future.

Anything specific you want to know, fire away.
 
Last edited:
Norman_E said:
Refitting an older boat is unlikely to make economic sense unless it really is the classic boat of your dreams, and you can do most of the work yourself.
Click to expand...

I've bought a boat that needed a fair bit of work and modification to get her up to a decent specification. I wanted a Hustler 30 as I love the lines, the feel of the boat underway and I know she's perfect for the North Sea.

The boat I found had a great base to start with at a price that I thought was cheap as it was. I negotiated a further price less 30% as she was tired looking and the previous owner obviously attempted to upgrade but appeared to run out of steam as they went and bought something else so were paying for two boats.

For me it made great economic sense to buy her as a project.

I didn't have enough to pay for a boat with "all the bits done" at the time but I did have enough to buy my starting point. From there each month I've slowly upgraded her to my standards with my regular allocated monthly budget.

If I'd have waited I'd never have gotten the boat I wanted and I wouldn't have got the boat I wanted with everything to my standard. To give you an idea of what I've had to do so far over the past 6 months ready for this season...

  • Installed replacement water tanks (GRP ones were old and Yuk!), deck fittings and run water pipes
  • Stripped out the old **** wiring and upgraded with new tinned wire and replaced all batteries and scaled up the battery banks (made all my own cables too!), new switch panel, checked wiring throughout the boat
  • Added Sterling Pro Split R
  • Added Chartplotter
  • Strip out 70's gas deathtrap pipes and 00's Microwave!! Installed a brand new stove (Paraffin Optimus 155)
  • New fuel line
  • New Exhaust hoses
  • Replaced standing rigging (Rigger did this for me)
  • Replaced and ran all running rigging myself
  • Replaced Boom
  • Replaced main sail
  • Led all lines aft to cockpit
  • New Anchor
  • Fit New Compass
  • New stackpack and lazy jacks
  • Cleaned and restored the wooden trim (always ongoing this :))
This weekend will be the last bits so I'm ready for the season...

  • Automatic maintenance bilge pump install
  • Solar Panel to support the auto bilge pump

There's also still a bit more to do the usual winter fairing,filters, A Fouling and buffing and the like for launch.

However, my point is the price I paid for her was less than half that of a full spec equivalent boat. I've upgraded her to my standards, I know the boat very well now and I know with what I've done I've got many years of happy sailing to come.

So for me it was very much worth it and I've enjoyed every minute of planning the installs, budgeting, searching for/finding bargains and putting her together. I've had all the family helping and we all feel she is ours, we talk about the jobs to do, where we will go and so on. For me, I find that element of the build priceless.

I'd also add that if you aren't prepared to do it yourself for 98% of the jobs then forget a boat regeneration project!
 
Great Job

Simondjuk said:
You'll probably spend on the wrong side of £10K to do anything resembling a complete and proper job if you do everything yourself.

Have a look at these photos and you'll find it hard to see where all the money went, but it did and we weren't lavish, just very thorough. For a project such as the one above, allow around 1000 hours for labour at a reasonably gentle weekend pace.

Bear in mind though that you effectively have a new boat at then end of it, not a newish looking 10 year old one which is likely to be in need of sails, running and standing rigging, etc. in the near future.

Anything specific you want to know, fire away.
Click to expand...

Had a look at the before and looked at your after pictures... You've done a really nice job there :)
 
she31 said:
http://www.western-horizon.co.uk/boat_details.php?boat_id=207

16K - was that a fair price? (Of course no way of knowing what the final amount for purchae was).
This my point - I have seen these for as little as 7K, and am starting to think - booger it, just get a thorough survey done on a restored classic like this, and go sailing!

And a rougher one at 9,500K

http://www.western-horizon.co.uk/boat_details.php?boat_id=222

So thats a 6,500 difference.
Seems about right, yes???
Click to expand...

The rich spend money to save time, the poor spend time to save money (Michael Ignatieff).

You could also wind up spending the money in the end (eg a new engine etc will cost £4,000), but if you've got the time and skills, and don't mind spending the first year or two doing more restoring/upgrading than sailing, then you'll end up with a boat that you really know and that has been done up to your own standards and spec.

Although its academic (as I'm not in the market and don't have the time), I actually prefer the rougher boat, especially the layout. As long as it was safe and moderately seaworthy for inshore waters in its present condition, and I had my heart set on one for the long term, then I'd buy it.

If I just wanted to get going, with a view to keeping her for two or three years, then I'd go for a more expensive example.

But remember, all boats need something doing to them as you go along!
 
she31 said:
Lets look at a few boats like Halcyon 26, Contessa 26, Pioneer 9, etc.

Say you purchase one for around 5K-7K - so at that price she is sailable but a "bit rough".

You want to probably re-do the rig & sails, re-do the portlights and hatches and any other areas that can let water into the boat, and perhaps re-tab the bulkheads and any support areas around the mast if she is deck stepped.

Perhaps her ground tackle needs uprgrading too if you are planning extended cruising.

What are we looking at here as guestimates? Perhaps as much as you paid for the boat again, or even more if you have to get specialist labour in.

Anyone around here been through this with a "good old boat"?

Or is it worth it just to pay the extra at the beginning for a refurbished boat....

This post came about in my mind because I see a plethora or these classic plastics for sale at what seems to be really good prices....but is the amount you are going to have to spend on these boats as much as I think it probably will be?
Click to expand...

I would be wary about buying an older boat and thinking you will turn her into a modern boat. Much of the perceived necessary expense comes from adding extras that were never there in the first place, and thus are not needed to make her a sailing boat - chart plotters, fridges, integrated navigation instruments, stack pack, roller furling, bow thruster and the like.

The next "luxury" category is what you spend to make her shiny - 2-pack on the topsides, new cushions for the bunks and so on.

Getting to what you will use in day to day sailing, there are the items that have worn out and the ones that were never there. If the tanks are leaking, then yes, replace them. Fit a holding tank, if you sail in busy waters; replace items like the toilet if it doesn't work, re-seat the windows and hatches if they leak. Many 1960's boats were built more strongly, for various reasons. It shouldn't be too hard to find one with the bulkheads still attached to the hull, the main drawback is that there will often be more wood to varnish than you might want. Your biggest saving will be leaving alone the things that are functional.
The engine will probably work, but be too small for modern tastes. Beware that if you decide to live with it you will end up never replacing it, which means sailing more and motoring less. :eek: I still run the 1GM (7.5hp) that came with Evadne, it still works, pushing us in calm seas at 3-4 knots. If we want to get somewhere more quickly, we have to hoist more sail, or motor sail, rather than drop it all and put the engine on.
 
she31 said:
http://www.western-horizon.co.uk/boat_details.php?boat_id=207

16K - was that a fair price? (Of course no way of knowing what the final amount for purchae was).
This my point - I have seen these for as little as 7K, and am starting to think - booger it, just get a thorough survey done on a restored classic like this, and go sailing!

And a rougher one at 9,500K

http://www.western-horizon.co.uk/boat_details.php?boat_id=222

So thats a 6,500 difference.
Seems about right, yes???
Click to expand...

That is about right especially considering the USP of the first one is that she's been stored for so long and therefore the hull is going to be in good condition.

The one thing about Hustlers is that there layup is like a proverbial brick outhouse. The first one is the cruising layout and the second is the race layout.

What's interesting about the second one though is she has a 1.7m draft this means she's the rarer XM race layout. These boats are reputed to be very, very stiff and very fast passage makers (for a 70's boat anyway). If she's a true XM Hustler the water tanks will be flexible as these were made without the GRP tanks otherwise she'll be the standard race layout with the deep keel purchased as an option from new.

Looking at the spec of the second she's got some of the core elements replaced and it appears as though she needs just a little TLC similar to the jobs I've done on mine.

Is she worth 9k? It depends on what the survey finds. The key thing is making sure the hull is sound, keel bolts secure and not too much in the way of damage to GRP top sides.

Faced with a choice between the two I'd go for the first one. Why? The hull! She's been stored for years so you are getting a practically brand new yacht for your money. You'll have the odd job over the coming years but that's the same with any boat.

Another thing to bear in mind with Hustlers, the accommodation isn't the biggest but I can stretch out to sleep in the fore cabin and in the main saloon berths (I'm 6ft 5"). Headroom is around 6ft but the cockpit is large (I can stretch out full length to snooze) and deep.
 
she31 said:
Or is it worth it just to pay the extra at the beginning for a refurbished boat....
Click to expand...

If we were talking classic cars or bikes or even cottages I would have no doubt that it would be better financially to buy something already "done up". I suspect it will be with boats too, but I dont know for sure. The reason is simple - people fancy a project and pay over the odds for something tatty to work on, and they underestimate the cost of the work.

Dont forget it isnt just the hull and sails that age. Masts dont last for ever and certainly engines and rigging and winches and other deck hardware have a finite life. And they are the major part of the cost of a new boat - the equipment not the hull.
 
I am in this exact situation right now.

I purchased a Halcyon 27 back in 2008 when I moved from the US to Europe which was very much in sail-able condition although with the original SABB engine. It was my idea to upgrade her over a couple years and then go for some extended cruising and possibly a transat back home.

As it worked out, the engine didn't last as long as I had hoped, only made it from Essex to Boulogne sur Mer, so I replaced that, first with an outboard and then a Yanmar 15hp back in winter 2009/2010.

I have found that in reality I prefer sailing her more than working on upgrades in port so I have made due with a boat that is functionable but not always the most convenient as far as creature comforts for the time being.

I have managed to save a bit of cash over the past couple years so I am cuurently looking for a decent boatyard to get some of the more critical essentials - rigging, sails, ground tackle, replacement fuel tank etc - taken care of before an extended cruise starting spring of next year. Of course the upgrades I pay for to have done versus the upgrades I tackle myself when I have a bit more time will depend significantly on the cost estimates of each item.

Could I justify this method with anyone with financial sense? Absolutely not, I will probably have put into the boat 2-3 times the amount that I could ever imagine getting out. Sometimes I consider selling her and combining that with my "upgrade fund" to buy something bigger/newer/nicer/better prepared etc etc. But then I figure there would still be some expensive items to be added/changed/replaced in order to be cruising ready and I wouldnt know the boat as well as do my current boat. So I stick with my classic plastic - she's slow, she's not always confortable, she's not very spacious...doesn't do much of anything better or faster than newer boats (well, maybe heave-to) but she fits my needs quite nicely and I'm pretty happy with that.
 
she31 said:
You want to probably re-do the rig
New running and standing rigging £1000
& sails,
New sails £2000
re-do the portlights and hatches and any other areas that can let water into the boat
Materials £100 if you can DIY and if hatches and ports are salvable
and perhaps re-tab the bulkheads and any support areas around the mast if she is deck stepped.
Materials £200 if you can DIY
Perhaps her ground tackle needs uprgrading too if you are planning extended cruising.
New generation anchor £300, chain 50m £400, warp 50m £150, windlass £400 + electrics £100? and DIY labour
Click to expand...

Might want to add modern nav electronix £1500 or so
Might need new engine £4000 or so

So approx £7000-10000 plus your own time. More if you need to pay engineers and shipwrights.

Of course you might also need/want new upholstery and headlining, sprayhood or cockpit enclosure, fuel, water and holding tanks, tender and outboard, topsides respray, new spars, coloured sails, bottom blasted and epoxied, fenders and lines, etc
 
Last edited:
she31 said:
Lets look at a few boats like Halcyon 26, Contessa 26, Pioneer 9, etc.

Say you purchase one for around 5K-7K - so at that price she is sailable but a "bit rough".

You want to probably re-do the rig & sails, re-do the portlights and hatches and any other areas that can let water into the boat, and perhaps re-tab the bulkheads and any support areas around the mast if she is deck stepped.

Perhaps her ground tackle needs uprgrading too if you are planning extended cruising.

What are we looking at here as guestimates? Perhaps as much as you paid for the boat again, or even more if you have to get specialist labour in.

Anyone around here been through this with a "good old boat"?

Or is it worth it just to pay the extra at the beginning for a refurbished boat....

This post came about in my mind because I see a plethora or these classic plastics for sale at what seems to be really good prices....but is the amount you are going to have to spend on these boats as much as I think it probably will be?
Click to expand...

Boats are available in virtually any condition from brand new to complete wreck. The trick is to find one you like in a condition that doesn't allow it to command a high price but which can be be refitted with moderate DIY skills and to a reasonable budget. Boats clean up amazingly well so don't be put off by the aesthetics, just make sure the structure is sound.

I've owned 7 boats and only one was new. My favourite boat was Adriana, a 32' Pearson designed by Phil Rhodes, in many ways not unlike a Nich 32. She was built in 1967, one of the earliest fibreglass production boats. She already had a new Yanmar 3GM30F and an electric windlass and good ground tackle.
She had no structural issues - this is very important.
We refitted the interior, added a fridge, bought a new main, painted the hull and mast, redid some of the electrics.

I paid $25,000 for her, spent about $10,000, and she provided the basis for a three year full time cruise. Had I needed to put more money into the boat I couldn't have spent three years in that life changing, hedonistic pursuit!
If you don't get too ambitious the way to go sailing 'now', instead of 'when we can afford the right boat' is to do up a good old boat, no doubt in my mind.

I repeated the exercise a few years later with a 41' ketch and took another 3 years out - same deal, I couldn't have made it happen if I'd had to spend a huge sum on the boat.

Most recently I bought a Compac 19 for a song and it's provided loads of mini-adventures on Lake Windermere and the canal system (with rig removed and bigger motor added).
 
IMO it depends on whether you want to spend your time and money doing DIY or going sailing!

One thing to be said for the DIY route is that you get a refurbed boat set up how you want it. The problem with that is that you will not really know how you want it till you have been out living with the boat for a couple of years.

I lived with a 'small' (23ft) boat for 16 years all the time dreaming and planning what I would like when I could afford it, so when I changed I new exactly what I was looking for. Obviously you would be more than lucky to find a boat that you could afford that ticked all the boxes, but I found one that ticked about 85%, so over the first couple of years of ownership I added the electronics that were missing then in the last 10 years changed and added other bits. All this additional cost was manageable as it has been spread over 12 years and in that time I've had 12 years of good sailing.
Which takes me back to my opening sentence :)
 
I bought my Vega for £10k, a bit over the odds in the current climate but she had a newish Beta engine, 8 sails, self-tailing winches, headsail furling, folding prop. I have spent in the region of £2.5k so far, on:

Navik windvane steering £400
Chart Plotter £500
VHF DSC £100
Tillerpilot £400
AIS £150
HH VHF £100
Partial rewire £150
Reinforce mast support beam £100
PLB £200
Tender/o/b £300

I think for what I've spent compared to what I have now in terms of what the boat is capable of is fantastic. If I was thinking of doing serious ocean crossing I would do the standing rigging, that would be another £500 and think about the windows (only a rubber seal holding them in). I think if you choose carefully a decent boat capable of serious work with at least a replacement engine and a decent set of sails can be had for significantly less than £10k, spend another couple of grand and you should have a boat fit for pretty much anything...
 
Last edited:
I have an old 26fter, an Invicta. She was a bit rough when I bought her five years ago but she managed to get me from Cardiff to the West Coast of Scotland.

She was a bit less rough, new standing and running rigging the next year when she got me from the West Coast to Edinburgh.

Less rough again the next year, a bit of internal decoration, a new stove, and she carried me to Norway and back.

And the next year, more sailing, a few more improvements and so on.

The windows still leak a bit but thats not the end of the world.

If the boat is basically sea worthy then that's enough to start with. There's an awful lot of stuff that people put on boats these days that you really do not need...............refridgeration .....in Britain?
 
I think Fascadale has nailed it. 'If the boat's seaworthy ...'

After that it's preference and personal priority. I've been upgrading my boat for a cruise to Shetland this summer - a lot of the expense has been to give my partner peace of mind, as I'll mostly be singlehanded. So I've bought a liferaft, and upgraded my electrics - fitted an inverter and invested in a towed/wind generator. The towed bit is so I can run the autohelm (rather than investing in a windvane), the wind bit is so I can keep the battery topped up at anchor to run the inverter to charge the phone so I can call home ....

But then I've had her 20 years, so have done the standing rigging, the running rigging (some of it more than once), replaced the log, the scratched to the point of unreadable compass, and the stove, installed a cabin heater - attended to the sailing necessities and then the comforts required by increasing age. Just start with the seaworthy.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

O
“The Dog that Didn’t Bark:” Yanmar. 4L HASTE.
Replies
2
Views
281
oldgit
O

Share this page

Top