Uninformed Gossip, Hooligan V and Napoli

[Woodentop]

When the Hooligan V lost its keel there was a lot of uninformed gossip on this forum about how it had struck a container lost from the MSC Napoli.

I was working on the MSC Napoli recovery and salvage at the time and did a statistical analysis and mathematical study of the chances of there a) being a floating container and b) the floating container being in roughly the same area.

There was no chance of the HooliganV having hit a container from MSC Napoli.

I also saw reports submitted of other boats of the same design losing their keels.

But you load of old women were gossiping away about hitting containers and were convinced that was the cause.

I have learnt to view the opinions on this forum with great care (in fact- it is best to ignore them).

 

[Major Catastrophe]

[ QUOTE ]
I have learnt to view the opinions on this forum with great care (in fact- it is best to ignore them).

[/ QUOTE ] Including yours? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[sarabande]

Out of simple academic curiosity, where can we see the study, please ?

Which comes first ? Hypothesis , or hindsight ? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
I have learnt to view the opinions on this forum with great care (in fact- it is best to ignore them).

[/ QUOTE ]

This could have been posted in such a better manner.

I have learned to be selective..... something life teaches you.

 

[alan006]

By posting your comments in an agressive way, you lose the sympathy of the reader before you start. For all I know about this you may be 100% correct with the facts, but because you choose to be confrontational and offensive it means your point of view is weakened.
I would go on to say that if the facts support you I would be surprised if the people in question did not agree with you. I have found the people on here have the integrity to do that.

 

[Woodentop]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have learnt to view the opinions on this forum with great care (in fact- it is best to ignore them).

[/ QUOTE ] Including yours? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Touche - You are quite right.

I'll get my coat...............

 

[Danny Jo]

Either I missed something, or my memory is playing tricks. After reading the thread on the Hooligan V tragedy, I was left with the impression that the suggestion of a collision with a floating object had been firmly dismissed fairly early in the life of the thread.

 

[Moonshining]

[ QUOTE ]
When the Hooligan V lost its keel there was a lot of uninformed gossip on this forum about how it had struck a container lost from the MSC Napoli.

I was working on the MSC Napoli recovery and salvage at the time and did a statistical analysis and mathematical study of the chances of there a) being a floating container and b) the floating container being in roughly the same area.

There was no chance of the HooliganV having hit a container from MSC Napoli.

I also saw reports submitted of other boats of the same design losing their keels.

But you load of old women were gossiping away about hitting containers and were convinced that was the cause.

I have learnt to view the opinions on this forum with great care (in fact- it is best to ignore them).

[/ QUOTE ]

I tell you what. There's a search facility on this forum. Why don't you post the threads with this "uninformed gossip"?

 

[tritonofnor]

Your terminology is well off.. I reckon what you get here is comment informed by the facts that are available at the time. You'll notice from lots of threads that opinions change as more information becomes available. This forum works well as a place for discussion, not dismissal, of others opinions, and as a place for us all to learn something new. If you think "it is best to ignore them" then you'll never learn!

 

[Twister_Ken]

serious question

Taking Woodentop's presence as fortuitous, may I ask him/her a question?

It's always struck me that 'waterlogged' containers, floating invisibly just below the water or totally awash, and waiting to take off passing keels, has something of the urban myth about it. Surely, the average lost container will either float (visibly), or sink. The odds of one having and maintaining neutral buoyancy seem far too long to be significant. What proportion of containers remain as growlers?

 

[landaftaf]

Re: serious question

if I may intercede

I looked at some figures a few years ago, there are apparently many thousands of containers lost overboard every year, of which a small percentage remain awash for a considerable time - mt ones sink in about 20 - 3- mins

another report easily found on google is here see page 28 - but I cant be arsed to read it all

 

[graham]

Statistical and mathematical conclusions arent all that comforting to the crew of a yacht ploughing a furrow in the vicinity of a stranded container ship slowly shedding its load .

Personally I have been lucky not to see a floating container (no saying I havent missed one by an inch in the dark though.

IMHO You owe the forum an apology for that post .If you cant bring yourself to do that then take the other option and bu&&er off.

 

[Clarky]

Dear Woodentop,If you are going to ignore the posts on the forum why do you read them ?.
I find a lot of useful information on here,and just disseminate what isnt .

Do you think you are stressed out ? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[jimbaerselman]

Re: serious question

[ QUOTE ]
It's always struck me that 'waterlogged' containers, floating invisibly just below the water or totally awash, and waiting to take off passing keels, has something of the urban myth about it.

[/ QUOTE ] You'd better tell that to Paul, my nephew. His vessel hit an object awash off the Channel Islands last summer at night. The damage was consistent with hitting a very heavy static 90 degree angled metal object at the waterline. Kept his boat out of the water for a few months while it was repaired. It was assumed to be a container - reported to HMCG at the time. Might have been Scotch Mist though.

 

[sarabande]

Re: serious question

I have seen a figure of about 10,00 containers lost overboard each year.

Wonder if there's any way that they could all be fitted with "trackers" that float free when the container falls overboard ?

If the container sinks, then the tracker won't show on CG screens, but if it's bobbing about on or just under the surface then there's a reasonable chance the tracker can be picked up.


Cost related to the lifetime earnings from each container must be pretty low, and the benefit to the sailing and insurance community quite high.

Perhaps it just needs a unit to be designed to be clipped into to the frame of the containers most at risk of falling overboard.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: serious question

Jim,

Not saying it doesn't happen, just trying to put some metric on those that remain a threat, as opposed to sinking or remaining visible. Still reckon only a very, very small proportion of those lost become keel killers. From Landataf's link, it seems an empty container will sink in about 30 minutes, but there is no info there on what happens to loaded ones.

 

[landaftaf]

Re: serious question

loaded ones will have a variety of buoyancy options, the article goes on to give examples .......
two extremes would be one container loaded with ping pong balls and the other with spanners - then extrapolate for in between - e.g. plastic barrels full of something with a s.g. of less than seawater may float below the surface for years.

encountering one of these - however unlikely ........ is still likely, maybe as likely as bumping into a sleeping whale - but the chance is there.

obviously there is more chance near a casualty (where time elapsed comes into the probability), or busy shipping lane, and less likely near an area overflown by (search) aircraft etc .......

 

[moondancer]

Re: serious question

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen a figure of about 10,00 containers lost overboard each year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bl***dy hope not we have a container with a boat in it somewhere around the equator as I type.

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: serious question

A ship held back in port here recently had lost containers overboard. She had a Chinese Captain and a Russian crew, was registered in Gib. The reason she was held back was lack of suitable charts. She didn't broadcast AIS. Do you really think these people could be bothered to organise '"trackers" that float free when the container falls overboard ?' They don't give a toss abt the containers or you.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Re: serious question

[ QUOTE ]
just trying to put some metric on those that remain a threat, as opposed to sinking or remaining visible.

[/ QUOTE ] Point taken.