Joe_Cole
Well-Known Member
As I said 80% is way over the top. Once you have worked out the figures you'll see that I am right. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Unhappy with marina charges?
- Thread starter absit_omen
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G
Guest
Guest
What I find extraordinary is that the south coast marinas get by with charging such astronomical prices while having awful facilities - I cannot recall a single UK marina that had decent showers and toilets.
Cost comparison taken from last week: marina in the centre of a city in Sweden, Karlskrona, charges for a 32' boat £8 a night. Included in the price is unlimited electricity, all the usual facilities (water etc.) showers and toilets which while not the best in the area, are better than is the norm in marinas in the UK, free WiFi internet access. Pontoons etc. are well maintained and new looking.
Living costs in Sweden are notoriously high, and the sailing season last only about 7 weeks, so the marina owners have a very limited time to make a profit each year. There are no other marinas in the city, so it's not a lack of competition issue. The marina I would say is reasonably but not untypically priced for the area. I don't know if the municipality has an interest in it, but the prices are comparable to privately owned marinas there, so that's not the explanation.
What's more, of the marinas that I've stayed in over the last 3 weeks (about 10), only half bothered charging AT ALL. Many didn't bother collecting since it was the end of the season. The marina I'm staying in now in Germany said I could stay for the whole of September for free with use of all facilities, since I'm leaving the boat there in October. In other words, I'm paying about £70 for nearly TWO MONTHS as a visiting boat. And the sailing area knocks the Solent to touch.
So the UK marina operator in comparison gets away with crap facilities, a much longer sailing season, often charging extra for things like electricity, and charging perhaps 4x as much, as well as an unpleasant hard-nosed commercial attitude.
Cost comparison taken from last week: marina in the centre of a city in Sweden, Karlskrona, charges for a 32' boat £8 a night. Included in the price is unlimited electricity, all the usual facilities (water etc.) showers and toilets which while not the best in the area, are better than is the norm in marinas in the UK, free WiFi internet access. Pontoons etc. are well maintained and new looking.
Living costs in Sweden are notoriously high, and the sailing season last only about 7 weeks, so the marina owners have a very limited time to make a profit each year. There are no other marinas in the city, so it's not a lack of competition issue. The marina I would say is reasonably but not untypically priced for the area. I don't know if the municipality has an interest in it, but the prices are comparable to privately owned marinas there, so that's not the explanation.
What's more, of the marinas that I've stayed in over the last 3 weeks (about 10), only half bothered charging AT ALL. Many didn't bother collecting since it was the end of the season. The marina I'm staying in now in Germany said I could stay for the whole of September for free with use of all facilities, since I'm leaving the boat there in October. In other words, I'm paying about £70 for nearly TWO MONTHS as a visiting boat. And the sailing area knocks the Solent to touch.
So the UK marina operator in comparison gets away with crap facilities, a much longer sailing season, often charging extra for things like electricity, and charging perhaps 4x as much, as well as an unpleasant hard-nosed commercial attitude.
adrianm
Well-Known Member
There are too many people in this country who have "lucked" into their money from rising house prices rather than having to earn it the hard way. I think this is what causes the "who cares" attitude when it comes to the marina costs (and lots of other high costs in this country).
I have dutch friends who won't step foot in a south-coast marina because of the charges.
All the time there are people prepared to pay those charges they will charge them. Be interesting to see what happens when red diesel goes.
I have dutch friends who won't step foot in a south-coast marina because of the charges.
All the time there are people prepared to pay those charges they will charge them. Be interesting to see what happens when red diesel goes.
G
Guest
Guest
I think there's something in that. Many in the UK have decided that time is a more valuable commodity than money, and do not bother to stop and do not stop to look and think about the bills before paying. In other words, yachting in marinas on the UK south coast is essentially a rich man's sport.
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
Spoke to a friend who keeps his 38' in the Solent. He pays 5.5K p/a for his marina berth, AND he considers this a good deal.
We keep Yanita in Ostend in summer 500 6 months (unmetered water & elec) and usually try to find a winter berth in the UK in the 1K / 6 months region. Tho this now seems harder due to shorter UK winters (see elsewhere).
Don't really care for marina facilities, anymore than I care for the facilities of a multi-storey carpark. IT'S ONLY A PLACE TO PARK THE BOAT!
We keep Yanita in Ostend in summer 500 6 months (unmetered water & elec) and usually try to find a winter berth in the UK in the 1K / 6 months region. Tho this now seems harder due to shorter UK winters (see elsewhere).
Don't really care for marina facilities, anymore than I care for the facilities of a multi-storey carpark. IT'S ONLY A PLACE TO PARK THE BOAT!
tringa
Active Member
I\'ve never been in a S. Coast marina
[ QUOTE ]
So the UK marina operator in comparison gets away with crap facilities, a much longer sailing season, often charging extra for things like electricity, and charging perhaps 4x as much, as well as an unpleasant hard-nosed commercial attitude.
[/ QUOTE ]
And from what you say, I'm not missing anything.
I spent several weeks in Sweden and Denmark a couple of years ago and I would say that facilities like showers etc. were more or less comparable with the marinas I am used to over here. I didn't find Swedish marina staff as friendly and helpful as their British equivalents, but the Danes were very outgoing.
The south coast of England is a lost cause, as far as I am concerned.
[ QUOTE ]
So the UK marina operator in comparison gets away with crap facilities, a much longer sailing season, often charging extra for things like electricity, and charging perhaps 4x as much, as well as an unpleasant hard-nosed commercial attitude.
[/ QUOTE ]
And from what you say, I'm not missing anything.
I spent several weeks in Sweden and Denmark a couple of years ago and I would say that facilities like showers etc. were more or less comparable with the marinas I am used to over here. I didn't find Swedish marina staff as friendly and helpful as their British equivalents, but the Danes were very outgoing.
The south coast of England is a lost cause, as far as I am concerned.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: I\'ve never been in a S. Coast marina
I can't recall finding marina staff in Sweden on the whole either particularly friendly or unfriendly - tho' thanks to the Harbourmaster at one Swedish marina 10 days ago: "How long are you staying - one night? Oh, you can stay for free" - now THAT's the kind of friendliness I like! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I found the German harbourmasters to be especially helpful - one in Travemunde not only rushed to take my mooring lines on arrival, but helped in lots of ways, from helping to fold the genoa to helping me to sell a redundant anchor. Also did negotiated for me with the owner's a month's free mooring fees etc. (a different occasion from the free September mooring fees that I'm enjoying at another German harbour at the moment!)
Bu in the end, most staff in marinas everywhere are there to direct you to the right mooring, take your fee, and answer any questions you may have, and I don't mind if the Swedish ones just do their job and no more!
I can't recall finding marina staff in Sweden on the whole either particularly friendly or unfriendly - tho' thanks to the Harbourmaster at one Swedish marina 10 days ago: "How long are you staying - one night? Oh, you can stay for free" - now THAT's the kind of friendliness I like! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I found the German harbourmasters to be especially helpful - one in Travemunde not only rushed to take my mooring lines on arrival, but helped in lots of ways, from helping to fold the genoa to helping me to sell a redundant anchor. Also did negotiated for me with the owner's a month's free mooring fees etc. (a different occasion from the free September mooring fees that I'm enjoying at another German harbour at the moment!)
Bu in the end, most staff in marinas everywhere are there to direct you to the right mooring, take your fee, and answer any questions you may have, and I don't mind if the Swedish ones just do their job and no more!
Joe_Cole
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I know that in Conway of whatever the marina charges are per year, £700 or so per boat goes to the harbour board
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you sure about that? The Conwy website shows the harbour dues for marina boats are £14 per metre per annum. At £700 per boat that would mean the average boat size is 50metres!
Something's not right with your sums, it would be nearer £140 per boat.
Is it paid by the Marina anyhow? Or does the boat owner have to pay the Harbour direct?
I know that in Conway of whatever the marina charges are per year, £700 or so per boat goes to the harbour board
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you sure about that? The Conwy website shows the harbour dues for marina boats are £14 per metre per annum. At £700 per boat that would mean the average boat size is 50metres!
Something's not right with your sums, it would be nearer £140 per boat.
Is it paid by the Marina anyhow? Or does the boat owner have to pay the Harbour direct?
tyce
Well-Known Member
quote "Spoke to a friend who keeps his 38' in the Solent. He pays 5.5K p/a for his marina berth, AND he considers this a good deal."
are these people mad, i pay for my 30 foot boat 90quid a year storage and free mooring. all the electric and water i could ever want and its better here than the south coast.
i am an above average earner but there is no way i could afford south coast fees.
they must all be barmy
are these people mad, i pay for my 30 foot boat 90quid a year storage and free mooring. all the electric and water i could ever want and its better here than the south coast.
i am an above average earner but there is no way i could afford south coast fees.
they must all be barmy
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
I know what you mean.
Only conclusion left - on the South Coast there are a lot of people with more money than sense.
A fool and his money are soon parted. What I want to know is this: how do a fool and his money get together in the first place?
Only conclusion left - on the South Coast there are a lot of people with more money than sense.
A fool and his money are soon parted. What I want to know is this: how do a fool and his money get together in the first place?
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
if you can find somewhere on middle south coast where you can pay this for same size boat, then I can guarantee you either know the owner and can blackmail them, or you only have sea access for about 12 hours a year.
It's pointless saying they have more money than sense - it's what you have to pay if you want to go boating in this area. There are cheaper alternatives, but not that many, unless you can trail your boat and keep it elsewhere.
It's pointless saying they have more money than sense - it's what you have to pay if you want to go boating in this area. There are cheaper alternatives, but not that many, unless you can trail your boat and keep it elsewhere.
savageseadog
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know that in Conway of whatever the marina charges are per year, £700 or so per boat goes to the harbour board
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you sure about that? The Conwy website shows the harbour dues for marina boats are £14 per metre per annum. At £700 per boat that would mean the average boat size is 50metres!
Something's not right with your sums, it would be nearer £140 per boat.
Is it paid by the Marina anyhow? Or does the boat owner have to pay the Harbour direct?
[/ QUOTE ]
That is very interesting, perhaps I was lied to when I queried the charges. I'm going to do some more research.
[ QUOTE ]
I know that in Conway of whatever the marina charges are per year, £700 or so per boat goes to the harbour board
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you sure about that? The Conwy website shows the harbour dues for marina boats are £14 per metre per annum. At £700 per boat that would mean the average boat size is 50metres!
Something's not right with your sums, it would be nearer £140 per boat.
Is it paid by the Marina anyhow? Or does the boat owner have to pay the Harbour direct?
[/ QUOTE ]
That is very interesting, perhaps I was lied to when I queried the charges. I'm going to do some more research.
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
Re: Think about it
[ QUOTE ]
You want them to hire it out on your behalf and hand over some of the profits? Who is going to pay the admin costs for doing that and share of advertising and running costs that bring people into the marina in the first place?
[/ QUOTE ]
That's exactly the system at Pwllheli operates, where my son keeps his boat. He tells them he is going away, and they put visitors in his berth. He gets half of the income from the visitors' fees. The admin seems simple enough and works well. At the end of the year he gets a statement of all the visitor-nights, including the names of the visiting boats.
How they decide which berth gets filled if they have more free berths than visitors I don't know, but he has never complained. He got nearly £500 back one year.
[ QUOTE ]
You want them to hire it out on your behalf and hand over some of the profits? Who is going to pay the admin costs for doing that and share of advertising and running costs that bring people into the marina in the first place?
[/ QUOTE ]
That's exactly the system at Pwllheli operates, where my son keeps his boat. He tells them he is going away, and they put visitors in his berth. He gets half of the income from the visitors' fees. The admin seems simple enough and works well. At the end of the year he gets a statement of all the visitor-nights, including the names of the visiting boats.
How they decide which berth gets filled if they have more free berths than visitors I don't know, but he has never complained. He got nearly £500 back one year.
tringa
Active Member
That figures
[ QUOTE ]
That's exactly the system at Pwllheli operates, where my son keeps his boat. He tells them he is going away, and they put visitors in his berth. He gets half of the income from the visitors' fees. The admin seems simple enough and works well. At the end of the year he gets a statement of all the visitor-nights, including the names of the visiting boats.
[/ QUOTE ]
We looked at Welsh marinas a couple of years ago when working in Bristol. Pwllheli was the second most expensive of all (and we looked at most) but offered no significantly better facilities than several much cheaper ones. Only Conwy was marginally more expensive and that was for obvious reasons. Swings and roundabouts.
[ QUOTE ]
That's exactly the system at Pwllheli operates, where my son keeps his boat. He tells them he is going away, and they put visitors in his berth. He gets half of the income from the visitors' fees. The admin seems simple enough and works well. At the end of the year he gets a statement of all the visitor-nights, including the names of the visiting boats.
[/ QUOTE ]
We looked at Welsh marinas a couple of years ago when working in Bristol. Pwllheli was the second most expensive of all (and we looked at most) but offered no significantly better facilities than several much cheaper ones. Only Conwy was marginally more expensive and that was for obvious reasons. Swings and roundabouts.
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
Re: Bad management
I envy you, either your marina is very cheap or you are rich. My berth at Hamble Point is £9000 pa and I dont think I would pay that to "reserve" it for me if I didn't have a boat.
I keep our boat there as it is a charter boat but I assume the rate is calculated for the year. I do think it reasonable for marinas to refund a % of visitors fees (less admin charge) in the same way the marina at my yacht club does. I appreciate that these presently go into the pot and it could be argued keep the annual cost down but at £9000 I do wonder where the money goes.
What is so different in running a marina in say France and the UK? Staffing and Salaries appear similar yet marina fees are about 33% of the UK. Is it supply and demand and a rip off or just demand is so high that there are no commercial pressures to be cost effective in the UK?
I envy you, either your marina is very cheap or you are rich. My berth at Hamble Point is £9000 pa and I dont think I would pay that to "reserve" it for me if I didn't have a boat.
I keep our boat there as it is a charter boat but I assume the rate is calculated for the year. I do think it reasonable for marinas to refund a % of visitors fees (less admin charge) in the same way the marina at my yacht club does. I appreciate that these presently go into the pot and it could be argued keep the annual cost down but at £9000 I do wonder where the money goes.
What is so different in running a marina in say France and the UK? Staffing and Salaries appear similar yet marina fees are about 33% of the UK. Is it supply and demand and a rip off or just demand is so high that there are no commercial pressures to be cost effective in the UK?
adrianm
Well-Known Member
Re: Bad management
Well I was rich once before I decided quality was more important than quantity. My berth costs less than half yours though for a boat that is 10ft bigger.
Well I was rich once before I decided quality was more important than quantity. My berth costs less than half yours though for a boat that is 10ft bigger.
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
Re: Bad management
Just got back and read your tongue- in- cheek posting re poor old Langstone. Very Good ! The challenge is -still- where to create more boat parks that do not impact negatively on the UK's coastline...(Please answer the question) Hey ,you could even end up owning and running one if you get it right ! One of the most interesting suggestions so far on this thread is aka The Florida way,lots of canals and houses/berths set slightly back from the sea. I can foresee a time when the minority in power turn their attention to the-to their urban eyes- ''eyesore ''of swinging and pile moorings . Couple that with the boatbuilding industry's need to continue supplying new boats and the demand pressure for new marina space is only going to get worse in any bouyant economy.
B.T.W. Maybe we will all end up registering our boats as charter vessels then we can offset that 9k Hamble berth somewhat (somewhat tongue-in-cheek ).
Maybe new artificial harbours are needed,as Brighton and Bournemouth. Port Bognor Regis anyone ?
Just got back and read your tongue- in- cheek posting re poor old Langstone. Very Good ! The challenge is -still- where to create more boat parks that do not impact negatively on the UK's coastline...(Please answer the question) Hey ,you could even end up owning and running one if you get it right ! One of the most interesting suggestions so far on this thread is aka The Florida way,lots of canals and houses/berths set slightly back from the sea. I can foresee a time when the minority in power turn their attention to the-to their urban eyes- ''eyesore ''of swinging and pile moorings . Couple that with the boatbuilding industry's need to continue supplying new boats and the demand pressure for new marina space is only going to get worse in any bouyant economy.
B.T.W. Maybe we will all end up registering our boats as charter vessels then we can offset that 9k Hamble berth somewhat (somewhat tongue-in-cheek ).
Maybe new artificial harbours are needed,as Brighton and Bournemouth. Port Bognor Regis anyone ?
DavidM
Member
Things are not always what they seem to be. Check the accounts of the marina companies, then look at the profits compared to your business or the company you work for. In reality without the services of eateries etc less yachtsmen use the marina. The marina does of course benfit from rental income from restaurants and so on but so they should, they provide the building/s. In some cases I am sure the tenants also help to keep the berth rates down. The marinas with full berths and waiting lists are often the ones you seek to criticise. That should tell you something. Yachting is not a cheap hobby but it still costs less to berth a yacht in a marina than to keep a horse in livery. Keep it in perspective. If you want splendid isolation with no facilities I am sure you could find it.
Sea Devil
Well-Known Member
The price difference between French and UK marinas is quite large - In La Rochelle which is expensive by French standards, the annual rate for a 11 to 11.5mtr boat is in Euros 2,424 which is about £1,672 per annum.
The facilities are normally better than the average UK marina, good resturants and chandlers and travel lifts etc etc. There is a waiting list for the more popular ones but there are immediate berths available from some.
Add to that the waters are no where near as overcrowded as the Solent - south coast - and radio checks are unheard off!
Given that the populations and economy is quite simlar - there is a waiting list for the more popular marinas - how on earth do the UK marina companies justifie their extortonate charges - given that they have built on what was originally anchoring or swinging mooring areas..........
The facilities are normally better than the average UK marina, good resturants and chandlers and travel lifts etc etc. There is a waiting list for the more popular ones but there are immediate berths available from some.
Add to that the waters are no where near as overcrowded as the Solent - south coast - and radio checks are unheard off!
Given that the populations and economy is quite simlar - there is a waiting list for the more popular marinas - how on earth do the UK marina companies justifie their extortonate charges - given that they have built on what was originally anchoring or swinging mooring areas..........