Unauthorised work

[azzurro]

What do you do if your Volvo agent carries out work which you have not authorised?
I asked for my boat to be de-winterised which I understood entailed putting props and batteries back on, de-inhibiting and servicing (usually oil change and impeller and spark plugs replaced). The boat is dry-racked out of the water when not in use. I also advised the service agent that the boat was being sold.
I then get an invoice for three times the normal, bellows had been replaced and new anodes fitted. I was not asked if this work should be carried out!. On querying the invoice the agent remarked that this is standard Volvo service requirements on an engine of that age and so I should have expected it. Surely I should have been advised of this before commencing the work or am I being naive??
The panels opinion would be much appreciated!

Steve

 

[DavidJ]

I think the work they have done is reasonable. I wonder what your reaction would have been if, when your boat is back in the water, the bellows had split letting water into the engine or your props were being excessively eaten due to poor anode condition.
I believe that they are working in your best interest albeit to their profit.
Communication is both ways so the moral of the story is although you are the customer you have an equal responsibility to discuss with them the detail of the work that they intend to do.
David

 

[tcm]

Re: difficult one

It depends, of course, on exactly what was said. If you had a quote for work (on paper) and then they went off and did loads of other things, then you don't pay. But sounds as if there's no paper with work requirted written on it.

But if you said "dewinterise" then i suspect almost anything goes. Saying that the boat is gonna be sold does not mean "obviously, do as little as possible".

look at it another way: suppose you said "dewinterise" and then found it needed things : - another owner might have gone ape because they hadn't left the boat in a seaworthy condition or suchlike.

Main consideration now is whether you fancy a fight. The boat might not be released until you pay, and it may cause aggro for you with other contractors around the marina. The outstanding payment might easily hinder a sale.

So, unless you have pieces of paper, grit teeth and pay up.

 

[petem]

Re: difficult one

Same happened to me with some work I had done on a car. Think I ended up paying for the parts and the dealer let me off the labour. So I'd try haggling a bit first, you've got nothing to lose.

 

[jfm]

Praps I'm over-dissecting your post but it seems:

1. You sed you asked for it to be "dewinterised"
2. you sed you understand that to include "sevicing".
3. the work done was "standard Volvo service requirements on an engine of that age".

If all that is correct, including the bit about it being standard servicing requirements, then you (impliedly if not expressly) ordered all that work to be done, and you have to pay up if the work is correctly priced. How could there be any other possible answer?.

I dont think the dealer can reasonably be expected to be on notice that you wanted less work doing, by virtue of your statement you plan to sell the boat.

But if you agreed something different, then the answer could be different.

imho

 

[brianrunyard]

I think they were probably correct, if the work was due at that service interval.
You'd have been pig sick if the boat sank, due to bad bellows, when a prospective buyer was trying it out.
Bad bellows would make it unseaworthy, to launch in that condition might invalidate your insurance.

Brian
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/brunyard

 

[halcyon]

Ask the dealer for a copy of the Volvo service spec that covers it, if it's there ok, if it's not then wre's his writen authorisation.
The big question is were does safety work start, i.e when is it a service requirement to change bellows. What if he dealer takes the head of to check your valve and pistons, should he check the big ends, after all your as likely to get a piston failure while at sea as you are bellows. In fact reading posts, a piston, sump or cooling system will fail a lot more often.

May be you always ask for a printed service list first and cost, probably only safe option.


Brian

 

[hlb]

Anodes and bellows. are all part of normal dewinterising service IMHO. So they've done nothing wrong. Less of course you write a detailed list saying. Just change every other spark plug and half the engine oil. <G>

No one can force me to come here-----------
----- I'm a Volunteer!!!

Haydn

 

[halcyon]

Is there not a space for a data sheet or mag article on what is covered by what sevice, as there appears to be a lot of doubts amongst owners.


Brian

 

[petem]

You\'re not gonna like this.....

I think it's rather tight of you to have half a job done just because you're selling it. I assume that you're not going to volunteer that the volvo schedule required the bellows to be changed but you' hadn't had the work done. How would you feel if you bought a boat and someone had done the same to you? Where do you draw the line? Perhaps your bilge pump was a bit iffy and you thought 'ah well, not my problem'!

In fact I'm glad the dealer did the decent thing. If he'd have left it and the bellows had gone (thus ruining the leg) then it would have been a really big job for the new owner (and dealer) to fix it.

 

[hlb]

The point is. If you just ask an engineer tp service some thing.
Your asking him to do what he sees fit. accepting that he knows maybe more than you do and using his experience.
Bit like getting on an aeroplane. You give the guy your money and just tell him to take you to Spain or where ever. Now if the engine falls off. You dont expect him to calmly walk back to you and say. Scuse me Brian. Can you tell me what to do next! You expect him to sort it. (If he can). Else and still with the aeroplane. You employ any old duffer to do the donkey work and say. Stick the throttles forwards a bit. Now pull back like hell on that stick in front of you. No not that much. and so on.

No one can force me to come here-----------
----- I'm a Volunteer!!!

Haydn

 

[ToMo]

Oh heck!...listen Haydn we know you've got a pet donkey, but it doesn't fly...rite!
Pigs fly, donkeys don't. - just keep taking the medication, it'll be better soon
TôMö

 

[hlb]

Only trying to be discriptive and helping folks to understand wot I'm saying ToMo. Dirty Harry dont fly aeroplanes Tomo. His hooves wont reach the peddles.

No one can force me to come here-----------
----- I'm a Volunteer!!!

Haydn

 

[oldgit]

Reo not worry about it

Jus pay up.Everyone knows the unwritten law to be followed by owners of boats with legs is.The next owner always gets the pleasure of forking out for the most expensive bits of rubber* in the known universe to be replaced.
*with the possible exception of a faulty Durex.

My wife reckons I spend to much time on here.

 

[claymore]

I don't think anyone has said what you wanted to hear - I don't suppose I'm going to help any either - we've all had a touch of this - with houses, cars, boats. Think you can only take it on the chin and at least be assured that a proper job has been done so that must be a plus point when you come to sell.

regards
Claymore

 

[halcyon]

The original post was unauthorised work, and I never think I mentioned planes?.

The point was that if a standard service does not include changing bellows, and you do not say to the dealer put right anything that you find, then any work must be cleared by the owner. If the bellows should be changed after a certain time as a precaution, either it is in the Volvo handbook, or up to the dealer to advise the customer that it is due. At this point it's up to the owner/skipper to decide if the craft is seaworthy and be responsible for it and people on board.
If you give Volvo dealers open book to change anything that they concider a posible problem or failure due to age were do you draw the line. Should they take the cylinder head of to check valves and pistons, you could get water in and a bent conrod. After all were are talking about Volvo labour and spare parts costs, not petty cash.
Then I have a Saab in the new boat, so should I worry.

Brian

 

[hlb]

Ang on. I'll look again at wot you said.
"I asked for my boat to be de-winterised."
So thats what they have done.

Dont get me wrong. I dont like paying neither.

But if when my boat comes out for it's yearly, bottom scrub, antifoul. Bottom maintainance. I'd kick any bugger round the yard, three times. If he said. I've put boat back in water but not changed the anodes. or the bellows. And tell him that he can blumin well drag it back out at his expence and do the job proper.

No one can force me to come here-----------
----- I'm a Volunteer!!!

Haydn

 

[halcyon]

Ahh but I own a Saab.

If new bellows is part of a standard Volvo de-winterisation fine, if it's not it requires owner consent, don't see the problem.

Brian

 

[coliholic]

Think the least they could do was give you an idea as to what was involved especially since as you say they quoted you one figure, then did the work and charged you 3 times that. Mind you you'll have to pay it, but you don't have to like it.

I had something similar this winter. I do all my own work on the boat and serviced my engines prior to the start of winter; set tappets, changed the oil and filters etc. A few days later, noticed that one of the engines wasn't registering any oil pressure on tickover. OK at 1,500rpm and sounded fine, but nothing on tickover. Talked to the Engineer at the marina, he had a look and diagnosed a sticky or faulty oil pressure release valve. Quoted me "about £150" to change it. Well since I'd never done one of them and didn't know where it was or how to do it, I agreed for him to do it. When the bill came it was for £320. Queried it and he said he also did an oil change on both engines and replaced the filters. When I asked him why, he said it was 'cos I'd been using GTX and that's the wrong oil so he thought he'd "do me a favour and do the right thing while he was there".

The point is I don't use GTX. I use proper CD oil, only I buy it in 25 litre containers and then leave on the boat 5 litres for topping up, decanted into an old GTX can. Argued with him and he was adamant that he'd done the right thing in his eyes and I'd have to pay.

So the upshot is, you're not happy, but you'll have to pay it. Just be wiser next time and get a full breakdown of what's involved and tell 'em to call you if more work is required.

 

[tcm]

Re: Next time

Of course, engineery types think that anyone with a boat is as rich as hell. But in fact, as we all know, the route to being able to afford a boat includes long periods of periods of being a very tight git indeed. So

1 Arrive in person, in the batteredest car you can find. Wear wellies, or at least odd socks without shoelaces tied up. Instruct wife to disappear as most wives make a bit of an effort to improve the general appearance of the couple/family.

2. Adopt a provincial accent, from as far away from London as you can manage. I'm lucky here, with a Yorkshire accent. Copy from some soap opera. Lay it on quite thickly .

3. Pay attention to the little things. If they offer a cup of tea, accept and hold the cup with both hands as tho you have not had a whole cup of tea for three months. If they offer sugar, raise your eyebrows as if treble scotches have been offered. If the sugar is in lumps, clumsily and furtively steal some sugar lumps. If there's an ashtray, take out Rizla papers and nonchalantly begin disemblowelling some used dogends in order to construct a second hand rolled-up cigarette. And so on.

4. Identify the work needed as though it is almost life-threatening. e.g. "there's nothing for it - I think the boat may actually need...an OIL CHANGE". Ask if perhaps they might be able to do that.

5. Carefully and deliberately ask how much it wiould cost for an oil change. Feign a seizure regardless of what they quote. Practise with wife for a few nights beforehand do that if they say "one pound twenty pee" you respond "HOW MUCH!!??" Ask if it will be cheaper if they use second hand oil. Brighten only a klittle when they confirm that the oil will be new, but then ask if what they do with the old oil. They'll say that the old oil is disposed of properly. Then ask if the old opil will de disposed of ny the council (they'll nod) perhaps in a special pit made for the purpose? They'll nod again. Then ask that surely the new oil comes out of the bloody ground too, so isn't that about the same thing? Eventually, grunt in miserly acceptance of their piffling explanation of "new" oil.

6. Esatblish how much ol is needed, and how much per gallon. Perform similar seizures as they advise labour charges, and so forth. Gradually yet slowly enquire what other work they might possibly want to do on the boat. Ask how much they charge for tightening the ropes. How much for dribbling oil on the teak.

7. Insist on signing an order for the work discussed. (this actuially the serious bit). They may protest that "surely, you can trust us". Respond that "it's not a matter of trust it's a matter of clarity" as you should do whenever someone challenges you to trust them. In bold letters you write words to the effect "Further work to be advised and quoted in advance and needs written my authorisation before proceeding".

8. Walk out of shop, taking your large slavering dangerous dog with you.