Ultrasonic Antifouling - Part II

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DougH

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You may recall that I was having untrasonic antifouling devices fitted by Ultrasonic Antifouling Ltd to my Sunseeker Manhattan 60 based in Mallorca.

Early in November the company furnished a quotation for fitting 2 x Ultra 20 and 1 x Ultra 10
using their own installation team at a cost of £5797.00 plus vat, with me arranging at my cost all hotel accomodation and travel in Mallorca.

It was then agreed that I would pay a deposit of £1000.00 as a gesture of goodwill and the cheque was sent the next day.

Installation was to be carried out during 10th-14th January 2010 and the installtion sub-contractor made his flight bookings and I made the hotel bookings and booked my own flights.

Then out of the blue David Sothcott of Ultrasonic Antifouling Ltd contacted me by email to say that he wanted all of the balance to be paid before installation.

I was most surprised at this demand but did contact him within 30 mins of receipt of his email to discuss the matter. He was insistant they wanted the total balance and I was only prepared to send a further £1500.00 with the balance being given to his installation team upon completion or for his installation team to watch me transfer the balance on line.

There was not to be any compromise and I therefore cancelled the order and requested that my £1000.00 deposit be returned.

David Sothcott readily agreed and to his credit the £1000.00 was returned to my account next day.

The same day I was contacted by their sub-contractor to say that as a result of the cancellation he was now out of pocket in the sum of £159.74. I then sent him the full cost of his flights as he was the innocent party in all of this.

The company was well aware that I was going to agree to Motor Boat & Yachtings request to make progress reports on the effectiveness of the system so this could have been good (or bad) publicity for them.

I cannot give any ideas why this senario took place at such a late hour nor do I have any reason to doubt their financial status nor the integrity of David Sothcott who I have always found to be a most pleasant person.

This of course means there will not be any progress reports from me on this subject.
 
I think you may have saved yourself a lot of money.
I cannot see how this product can work an large boat - it does not make scientific sense. It may work over one small area but it cannot work over the entire hull - hence the test on a small boat is not really a true test.

Sorry to hear how you were messed about. At least he refunded but i cannot see the snese in his position.
 
Hi, I am more than a little interested in this.

I have just bought an Ultra 20 from them to fit on my 26ft Heavenly Twin cat. Not in your league I appreciate. However, any secondary information you may have would interest me.

I am pretty sure it will do all I want on the hulls. My problem is that I have a central long leg outboard that becomes very heavily fouled with all manner of things. The leg is 42ins from the nearest bit of hull, so the ability of the ultrasound to travel through the water is critical. David Sothcott is very coy about this, understandably, as it can not be possible for him to guarantee performance, there are too many variables.

I just hope, very much, that I have got it right.

Mike
 
DougH said:
You may recall that I was having untrasonic antifouling devices fitted by Ultrasonic Antifouling Ltd to my Sunseeker Manhattan 60 based in Mallorca.

Early in November the company furnished a quotation for fitting 2 x Ultra 20 and 1 x Ultra 10
using their own installation team at a cost of £5797.00 plus vat, with me arranging at my cost all hotel accomodation and travel in Mallorca.

It was then agreed that I would pay a deposit of £1000.00 as a gesture of goodwill and the cheque was sent the next day.

Installation was to be carried out during 10th-14th January 2010 and the installtion sub-contractor made his flight bookings and I made the hotel bookings and booked my own flights.

Then out of the blue David Sothcott of Ultrasonic Antifouling Ltd contacted me by email to say that he wanted all of the balance to be paid before installation.

I was most surprised at this demand but did contact him within 30 mins of receipt of his email to discuss the matter. He was insistant they wanted the total balance and I was only prepared to send a further £1500.00 with the balance being given to his installation team upon completion or for his installation team to watch me transfer the balance on line.

There was not to be any compromise and I therefore cancelled the order and requested that my £1000.00 deposit be returned.

David Sothcott readily agreed and to his credit the £1000.00 was returned to my account next day.

The same day I was contacted by their sub-contractor to say that as a result of the cancellation he was now out of pocket in the sum of £159.74. I then sent him the full cost of his flights as he was the innocent party in all of this.

The company was well aware that I was going to agree to Motor Boat & Yachtings request to make progress reports on the effectiveness of the system so this could have been good (or bad) publicity for them.

I cannot give any ideas why this senario took place at such a late hour nor do I have any reason to doubt their financial status nor the integrity of David Sothcott who I have always found to be a most pleasant person.

This of course means there will not be any progress reports from me on this subject.
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That's disgraceful. Maybe he realised what the results would be and didn't want the adverse publicity. He must have realised that if you could afford a Manhatten then paying this bill wouldn't be a problem. I'd wager they won't be around this time next year.
 
IMHO you are well out of it.

As I said before, I've seen what the system "doesn't do".

I think someone on here summed it up -
It was all the rage 30 years ago but if it had worked then, we would ALL be using it now.
 
DougH said:
You may recall that I was having untrasonic antifouling devices fitted by Ultrasonic Antifouling Ltd to my Sunseeker Manhattan 60 based in Mallorca...
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Urgh, how frustrating Doug. In the new MBY that came out yesterday Jon Mendez gives a report and pics of how an ultra10 has worked on their Storebro 31 (Motala) in the solent and his report is quite positive. They got very few barnacles on the metalwork but I'm not exactly sure what their barnacle count was pre-ultrasonic. Perhaps Solitaire can answer that?

I am still quite temped to experiment in the next month or so by buying an Ultra 20 and putting both vibrators above the sterngear, just to see how it goes. I'm not too fussed about gambling the £1600 which is what it would cost, and it's a much smaller gamble than yours. (Where I am, Antibes, there is no appreciable hull slime fouling if you use a soft paint - I use black Micron 66 and have posted pics here before showing the hull clean after 12months in the water. The ONLY fouling I have to deal with is lots of barbacles on the props, p brackets, tabs and rudders). I'm just a bit busy at the mo and haven't got onto this yet, but I'm planning a lift out in Feb and a new coat of a/f paint so that would be the ideal time to do it
 
jfm said:
Urgh, how frustrating Doug. In the new MBY that came out yesterday Jon Mendez gives a report and pics of how an ultra10 has worked on their Storebro 31 (Motala) in the solent and his report is quite positive. They got very few barnacles on the metalwork but I'm not exactly sure what their barnacle count was pre-ultrasonic. Perhaps Solitaire can answer that?

I am still quite temped to experiment in the next month or so by buying an Ultra 20 and putting both vibrators above the sterngear, just to see how it goes. I'm not too fussed about gambling the £1600 which is what it would cost, and it's a much smaller gamble than yours. (Where I am, Antibes, there is no appreciable hull slime fouling if you use a soft paint - I use black Micron 66 and have posted pics here before showing the hull clean after 12months in the water. The ONLY fouling I have to deal with is lots of barbacles on the props, p brackets, tabs and rudders). I'm just a bit busy at the mo and haven't got onto this yet, but I'm planning a lift out in Feb and a new coat of a/f paint so that would be the ideal time to do it
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Being the gadget kid that I am, I will await your results, & then if positive perhaps have a go myself. Have my doubts about it though otherwise I would just go for it.
 
I have just read the MBY article...and don't "get it".

The system doesn't appear to be a replacement for antifoul as the MBY article says "antifoul will last up to 4 years, not just 1".

I get that the system may offer better sterngear protection...but when I first read about it I had imagined the end of antifouling as we know it, replaced by the ultrasonic system.

My antifoul gets worn through on the chines in a season or two (fast planing boat admittedly) so I had though all antifoul off, clean GRP bottom, couple of these ultrasonic gizmos and not more paint.

Surely this should be more accurately described as "ultrasonic antifoul for bits that are a bit difficult to protect with paint, but not a replacement for antifouling the hull"????
 
stefan_r said:
Surely this should be more accurately described as "ultrasonic antifoul for bits that are a bit difficult to protect with paint, but not a replacement for antifouling the hull"????
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The MBY report is useful, and suggests that it works to some extent, but it's only briefly mentioned that there are 11 barnacles on the small patch of hull they painted with primer to use as a control. They also say there's a layer of slime, but if you look at the photo there is significant fouling on it, more than just slime, in fact I wouldn't say it's much different to what you'd expect on a boat with no antifoul after three and a half months. That suggests to me that it's the old antifoul that's protected the hull, not the ultrasonic, which is no great surprise as Seajet claim their Shogun a/f will last two seasons (though of course, two seasons could be spring and summer!)

So, it's the clean sterngear that is more impressive, and the article says "the propellers, rudders and p-brackets remained barnacle free". However, look at the rudders in the picture and it looks like they've been sprayed with Trilux or similar, and the p-brackets have clearly been treated with conventional antifoul at the same time as the hull. The trim tabs are heavily fouled, so we're actually down to just the shafts and props. Now don't get me wrong, the props are what really matters, and if the system keeps just the props clean i'd buy it in a flash, but this is a heavily used school boat, and I don't remember my bronze props getting too fouled up in the Solent anyway, though it was a while ago. A marginal grounding in sand also does a great job of cleaning up the props, but of course a sea school would never do that :-)

Still, Jon states that they normally lose some speed during the summer due to sterngear fouling, and they didn't this year, so it seems the ultrasonic system is having some benefit, but I think it'll just be one tool in the fight against fouling, more appropriate in some fouling areas than others, and wont remove the need for hull antifouling or even for scrubbing the sterngear on occasions.

So, i'd call it "ultrasonic anti fouling that varies from good to useless depending where your boat is, but probably better than nothing on bits that are difficult to protect with paint, but not a replacement for antifouling the hull". That's a nice catchy advertising slogan for them!
 
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Gludy said:
JFM
Have you considered PropSpeed for your stern gear?
This does seem to work. I have it on my new boat but have had no personal experience of it so far.
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Yes, I had it professionally applied a couple of years ago. It was quite good and reduced the barnacle count to perhaps 25pc of what it would otherwise have been. That's good but I'd like to do better, and it is very expensive. If u/s didn't work I'd probably go with propspeed every year

I have some before/after pics with/without propspeed, which represent a fair comparison (same boat, marina, length of time in water etc) which I could dig out and post.

All that said, Deleted User used propspeed a few years ago and it was no good!
 
stefan_r said:
I have just read the MBY article...and don't "get it".

The system doesn't appear to be a replacement for antifoul as the MBY article says "antifoul will last up to 4 years, not just 1".

I get that the system may offer better sterngear protection...but when I first read about it I had imagined the end of antifouling as we know it, replaced by the ultrasonic system.

My antifoul gets worn through on the chines in a season or two (fast planing boat admittedly) so I had though all antifoul off, clean GRP bottom, couple of these ultrasonic gizmos and not more paint.

Surely this should be more accurately described as "ultrasonic antifoul for bits that are a bit difficult to protect with paint, but not a replacement for antifouling the hull"????
Click to expand...
I didnt really understand how the a/f can last more years. Either it washes off, or the bio-muck leaches out. How does u/s alter that?
I just use a single coat of Trilux, though the boat is only in the water 7 months. That seems extremely efficient on the hull, but this year the spray version on the drives seemed very ineffective against barnacles.
I wonder about using the trilux paint instead, but I guess that does mean a build up on the legs over the years...
 
jfm said:
Urgh, how frustrating Doug. In the new MBY that came out yesterday Jon Mendez gives a report and pics of how an ultra10 has worked on their Storebro 31 (Motala) in the solent and his report is quite positive. They got very few barnacles on the metalwork but I'm not exactly sure what their barnacle count was pre-ultrasonic. Perhaps Solitaire can answer that?

I am still quite temped to experiment in the next month or so by buying an Ultra 20 and putting both vibrators above the sterngear, just to see how it goes. I'm not too fussed about gambling the £1600 which is what it would cost, and it's a much smaller gamble than yours. (Where I am, Antibes, there is no appreciable hull slime fouling if you use a soft paint - I use black Micron 66 and have posted pics here before showing the hull clean after 12months in the water. The ONLY fouling I have to deal with is lots of barbacles on the props, p brackets, tabs and rudders). I'm just a bit busy at the mo and haven't got onto this yet, but I'm planning a lift out in Feb and a new coat of a/f paint so that would be the ideal time to do it
Click to expand...

As we know, Motala lives on the Hamble.
We were on the hamble for a few years with our old Sealine.
We used to get a little slime towards the end of the season but barnacles were not a problem.
When I read the article, I thought that this wasnt really the place to test ultrasonics.

jfm
If you get ultrasonics working - I'd be there - right behind you.
But I doubt it - i'm afraid.

Gludy
(Good to have you posting again)
I always get mixed up between the different prop treatments with the names Propxxxxx.
I've heard of Propshield, Propspeed and Propslip.
Propshield is the lanoline one
Propspeed is a silicone based product
I think that Propslip is another name for the Propspeed product.

I was going to use the Propshield treatment this year - knowing that it wouldnt be much good and lift out/scrub often through the season.
But I've just seen this photo on our bertholders forum of the result of Propshield - not impressive is it.

web-1000214.jpg
 
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Hurricane said:
As we know, Motala lives on the Hamble.
We were on the hamble for a few years with our old Sealine.
We used to get a little slime towards the end of the season but barnacles were not a problem.
When I read the article, I thought that this wasnt really the place to test ultrasonics.
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Yes, I thought the same Hurric

Hurricane said:
jfm
If you get ultrasonics working - I'd be there - right behind you.
But I doubt it - i'm afraid.
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Yes I doubt it too. I dont doubt your and LJS's and other posters' scepticism for one moment so I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying I'm prepared to throw £1600 worth of caution to the wind and give it a go, in a "what the hell" frame of mind :-) Actually my worry with it, and I dont want to get into a marine biology post cos I am way out of my depth, is that it will scare off the lovely mullet who (I think) suck a lot of the slime off my boat while it's on its berth, so contributing to the very clean hull when it's lifted out. What I really want is some mutant mullet DNA to give them sharp barnacle-breaking teeth.

Hurricane said:
I always get mixed up between the different prop treatments with the names Propxxxxx.
I've heard of Propshield, Propspeed and Propslip.
Propshield is the lanoline one
Propspeed is a silicone based product
I think that Propslip is another name for the Propspeed product.
Click to expand...

I definitely used propspeed a few years ago and got good results, at quite high price. Will try to find the pics and post later. Your pic seems to show that propshield (Lanolin)is rubbish! Though, the hull looks ok ish
 
jfm said:
Yes, I thought the same Hurric



Yes I doubt it too. I dont doubt your and LJS's and other posters' scepticism for one moment so I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying I'm prepared to throw £1600 worth of caution to the wind and give it a go, in a "what the hell" frame of mind :-) Actually my worry with it, and I dont want to get into a marine biology post cos I am way out of my depth, is that it will scare off the lovely mullet who (I think) suck a lot of the slime off my boat while it's on its berth, so contributing to the very clean hull when it's lifted out. What I really want is some mutant mullet DNA to give them sharp barnacle-breaking teeth.



I definitely used propspeed a few years ago and got good results, at quite high price. Will try to find the pics and post later. Your pic seems to show that propshield (Lanolin)is rubbish! Though, the hull looks ok ish
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Jfm if you wait for a few days I'll be seeing a mate who put this on his Nordhavn in the states, he's back from spending a month on board sometime next week. I'll report back what he thinks of it.
 
Nick_H said:
. . . So, i'd call it "ultrasonic anti fouling that varies from good to useless depending where your boat is, but probably better than nothing on bits that are difficult to protect with paint, but not a replacement for antifouling the hull". That's a nice catchy advertising slogan for them!
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It might work better if left running and turned on 24/7 but I think I remember that if fitted to my yacht, it would draw over 10 Amps continuously which is far too much demand all day and all night, week in and week out.

The get out clause for these ultrasonic devices probably mentions that it needs to be running all the time or its effectiveness will not be guaranteed! :mad:
 
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